WDW Should Charge EXTRA for FastPass+

[BrerGnat]

The FP+ system will allow you to book a FastPass for Splash Mountain 60 days, not 180 days (6 months)... If you don't book your FastPass, yes, there is a chance the FP availability will "sell out"... You won't be able to get a FP but can still ride Splash Mountain if you want to stand in the stand by line queue...

As for the spontaneous trip goers, I do believe this will kill those spontaneous plans...

Thank you for posting this clarification. I was about to mention the same thing.

Disney's official literature has always been that you can schedule FP+ 60 days in advance. 180 days was never mentioned. People just made the assumption based on the dining system.

I think Disney should just push everything to 60 days out. Planning for anything beyond that, with the exception of a wedding, is ridiculous.

The only thing I don't like about the FP+ system (based on explanations on how it will work) is that you can only get FP for one park per day. That is a real problem. How will they continue to market the Park Hopping option with that limitation in place?

[DizneyFreak2002]

The only thing I don't like about the FP+ system (based on explanations on how it will work) is that you can only get FP for one park per day. That is a real problem. How will they continue to market the Park Hopping option with that limitation in place?

Which is why I said at the beginning when the word first came out about this that park hopping as we know it will change, or end for most people... Still doable though...

Micromanage/microplan your most MAGICAL Disney stress heart attack, I mean vacation right down to the minute (including bathroom breaks!!!!) to the point that you decide to park hop 60 days in advance... Pick DHS (since it is a poor park and can be done in 3 hours) and DAK since it has little substance (can be done in 3 hours)... Book FP+ for TSMM, Star Tours, and Tower of Terror in the afternoon... Go to DAK in the morning and knock off the 5 things to do there by 12... head over to DHS and make sure you book your FP+ from 2:00 to later... And you just successfully park hopped... of course, the heart attack you had 2 months prior from the stress of booking your trip would prevent you from doing Everest, Tower of Terror, Rock N Roller Coaster....

[VWL Mom]

I don't quite understand this Fastpass+. Correct if I'm wrong but it seems to me that, say, lots of people book Splash Mountain 6 months in advance, if I go without "booking" its a possibility that the ride is booked up for the day and I can't get on?

It is my understanding that there will only be a limited number of FP+ available for each ride. I have read that this will actually speed up the stand-by lines so folks like you and I that aren't planners will still get to enjoy the rides.

[1DisneyNut]

It is my understanding that there will only be a limited number of FP+ available for each ride. I have read that this will actually speed up the stand-by lines so folks like you and I that aren't planners will still get to enjoy the rides.

That is the exact same thing they said about Fastpass when it was first rolled out. I personally preferred the pre-fastpass days when you simply went into the park and everyone had to wait in the standby lines.

The rides have a maximum throughput. When the parks are busy and the lines back up causing a wait time, the ride is running at maximum throughput. No matter what you call the lines or how people get there, the ride can still only carry so many per hour. All fastpass does is gives those that are really good at time management and logistics an upper hand and allows them to ride more rides in a given time. I don't like fastpass but I am very good at utilizing them to their fullest......I would just prefer not to be put in a position where I am doing all that logistical thinking and mathematics while on vacation. It is like being at work while I am on vacation.

For example, we were there for a short trip July 4. On July 5, we were able to do every ride in Magic Kingdom we wanted to do and we did Splash Mountain 3 times and Pirates twice all before 1:00 PM. We did skip a few things nobody wanted to do such as Hall of presidents, Country Bear, Tom Sawyer and a couple others that most people skip but they didn't have any wait times so we could have just walked right in had we wanted. I will say though, the park had a decent crowd but it was way way off from what we have seen for the week of July 4 in the past.

[MickeysBestPal]

It is my understanding that there will only be a limited number of FP+ available for each ride. I have read that this will actually speed up the stand-by lines so folks like you and I that aren't planners will still get to enjoy the rides.

For a heavily-promoted new FP system to be put into effect, Disney must make a significant number of FP+ positions available in the system.
(Otherwise, why spend the money to create and promote FP+ as their "breakthrough" in guest park enjoyment?)

To make enough FP+ available, they will have to reduce the number of "non-FP+" ride positions available. (That's because a given attraction can only carry X number of guests per hour and per day. That is a hard maximum due to number of seats, and length of ride of a given attraction.)

So, the only outcome that favors the "new system" being usable by the maximum number of guests... is to add more FP/FP+ positions per attraction.
After first pulling all or many or most of the (former) "regular FP" positions and converting those to FP+ positions...
the rest of the new FP+ positions must come from the only place that they CAN come from... at least SOME of the (formerly available) standby positions.
This must slow the standby line.
Will this be the case for ALL attractions?
Nope.
But, since they are adding FP+ to a whole lot of attractions that previously did not offer FP at all... it means that MOST attractions' standby lines will be negatively affected (to one degree or another) by the roll-out of FP+.

[VWL Mom]

For a heavily-promoted new FP system to be put into effect, Disney must make a significant number of FP+ positions available in the system.
(Otherwise, why spend the money to create and promote FP+ as their "breakthrough" in guest park enjoyment?)

To make enough FP+ available, they will have to reduce the number of "non-FP+" ride positions available. (That's because a given attraction can only carry X number of guests per hour and per day. That is a hard maximum due to number of seats, and length of ride of a given attraction.)

So, the only outcome that favors the "new system" being usable by the maximum number of guests... is to add more FP's positions per attraction.
Those extra FP positions must come from the only place that they CAN come from... at least SOME of the (formerly available) standby positions.
This must slow the standby line.
Will this be the case for ALL attractions?
Nope.
But, since they are adding FP+ to a whole lot of attractions that previously did not offer FP at all... it means that MOST attractions' standby lines will be negatively affect (to one degree or another) by the roll-out of FP+.

I see what you're saying. On the other hand, currently we get 5-6 FP a day whether that's in 1 park or park hopping. Do you think limiting the count to 3 will have an effect?

[MickeysBestPal]

I see what you're saying. On the other hand, currently we get 5-6 FP a day whether that's in 1 park or park hopping.


Do you think limiting the count to 3 will have an effect?

It will have an effect.
But, that effect will be mitigated by the 60-day window throughout which guests can join.
Plus, the heavy promotion (emails, web-links, network TV spots, encouragement to use FP+ by phone CM's, travel agent participation, etc.) through which more and more guests will partake of the new program.
Disney is even offering to pick your FP+ FOR you at the click of a mouse.

It would likely mean far more guests using the new system than used the old FP's in the past (a stated goal of Disney brass.)

[eandrsmom]

I don't think I'd pay extra for FP+ at Disney. We've been too many times, and have been on everything to justify the expense. However, we are going to Universal in a few weeks and purchased the Express Pass option. When we were there last summer, we were unable to ride some rides because of the crowds and heat. Some of the waits were almost two hours. Since we hadn't visited Universal in over 10 years, there were several attractions that we had to skip. For us, it was worth paying extra this time so that we would have the opportunity to ride things that we've never been on.
The thing about Universal's system that I really like, is that they don't dictate a specific time window that you have to return to an attraction. You pay for Express Pass and tour the park at your pace, riding what you like. I wish Disney could take note of this, I really don't want to have to plan 60 days out.

[Aurora]

For a heavily-promoted new FP system to be put into effect, Disney must make a significant number of FP+ positions available in the system.
(Otherwise, why spend the money to create and promote FP+ as their "breakthrough" in guest park enjoyment?)

To make enough FP+ available, they will have to reduce the number of "non-FP+" ride positions available. (That's because a given attraction can only carry X number of guests per hour and per day. That is a hard maximum due to number of seats, and length of ride of a given attraction.)

So, the only outcome that favors the "new system" being usable by the maximum number of guests... is to add more FP/FP+ positions per attraction.
After first pulling all or many or most of the (former) "regular FP" positions and converting those to FP+ positions...
the rest of the new FP+ positions must come from the only place that they CAN come from... at least SOME of the (formerly available) standby positions.
This must slow the standby line.
Will this be the case for ALL attractions?
Nope.
But, since they are adding FP+ to a whole lot of attractions that previously did not offer FP at all... it means that MOST attractions' standby lines will be negatively affected (to one degree or another) by the roll-out of FP+.

1. ALL of this depends on how many people will use the FP+ system, which no one knows right now.

2. You can assume that more FP+s will be made available for rides across the park, but you cannot assume that more FPs will be made available for the most popular rides, for the very "maximum capacity" argument you make above. So if this is true, for the most popular rides, FP+ will make no difference at all.

3. If people plan to ride a particular attraction on a given day, it doesn't matter whether they are holding a FP+ or using the standby line. They would be taking the same number of seats available on a ride. So whether they use a FP or the standby line is irrelevant to wait times.

4. The guests who will be most impacted by FP+ are the ones who currently use more than 3 FPs per day. They are the ones who will see their wait times increased, not because standby lines will be longer, but because they will be using standby lines more often.

CAVEATS:

There are two things that, if they happen, would increase wait times: One is if Disney does make more FPs available for the most popular rides == the ones that currently run out during the day. And I haven't seen anything to indicate that they will do this.

The second is CMs who don't understand that you don't have to hold the standby line while NO ONE is in the FP line, just to make sure you allow the "quota" of FP guests before opening up the standby line again. I've seen this happen with Soarin', and this unnecessarily increases standby wait times.

And to go back to the OP, I hope they never charge extra for FP+.

[KylesMom]

Just priced Six Flags in Gurnee, IL version of FP for four people - base tix with large gate discount from Discover increases the single day cost to almost $100 per person. We're going to make a day of it before we head up to Road America, and since I haven't been there in about 20 years, thought it would be nice. No way! Hopefully Disney will keep FP free - but if they don't,it will be a real shame. With the continuation of ridiculous price increases we have not as a family been able to afford a Disney vacation in two years now. Very sad to me. As an aside, I don't see them reducing gate prices if they were to charge for FP either!

[MickeysBestPal]

if Disney does make more FPs available for the most popular rides == the ones that currently run out during the day. And I haven't seen anything to indicate that they will do this.

As one who has kept up very diligently on this progression of events, I can tell you that there are many indications that Disney has ALREADY added more FP's to the current FP attractions in preparation for the incoming system.

It was stated by some CM's at the time of the stopping of the ability to "use a FP at any time that same day following the earliest Return Time" that it looked like more FP positions were being added to attractions to maximize the number of FP guests on a given day.

[Altair]

The second is CMs who don't understand that you don't have to hold the standby line while NO ONE is in the FP line, just to make sure you allow the "quota" of FP guests before opening up the standby line again. I've seen this happen with Soarin', and this unnecessarily increases standby wait times.

This has also happened on Splash Mountain, but the mother of all is Peter Pan's Flight. You don't even have to slow down if you are in that Fast Pass line.

Test Track as always been one of the best for moving folks in all three of their lines.

[Aurora]

It was stated by some CM's at the time of the stopping of the ability to "use a FP at any time that same day following the earliest Return Time" that it looked like more FP positions were being added to attractions to maximize the number of FP guests on a given day.

Barring any real statistics from someone with knowledge of the exact number of FPs distributed, it's more likely that CMs were noticing there were more people filing into their ASSIGNED time for their FPs, since guests no longer had the flexibility to use them later. This would certainly make it look like more FPs were being given out when that wasn't the case.

[Tekneek]

Not in favor of the selling of FP+ slots. I wouldn't think Disney wants to devalue the VIP tour, so prices would have to be set in a way that they don't kill off the VIP tour business.

[joonyer]

Many other theme parks have been charging extra for express type passes for years, so I expect it's just a matter of time before it happens at WDW, one way or another. I fully expect it will begin with limiting the free FPs to WDW resort guests, and charging others for them, in an effort to drive occupancy rates higher. That's where WDW really makes it's money. The parks are now just there mainly to fill hotel rooms and sell DVC units. They don't really care about wait times, they want to sell hotel rooms.

[Tekneek]

They don't really care about wait times, they want to sell hotel rooms.

Might say they don't care about anything but money. They care about "show" and "guest experience" only so much as they must in order to make money. Somewhat of a shift in mindset. Disney used to be a leader, not a follower, and doing anything just because everybody else does is following some other leader.

[joonyer]

Might say they don't care about anything but money. They care about "show" and "guest experience" only so much as they must in order to make money. Somewhat of a shift in mindset. Disney used to be a leader, not a follower, and doing anything just because everybody else does is following some other leader.

Yes, and the way they make the most money is to sell DVC units, rent hotel rooms, and by selling food (including dining plans). That's where the big net profit is. They don't make much off selling park tickets.

[Tekneek]

Yes, and the way they make the most money is to sell DVC units, rent hotel rooms, and by selling food (including dining plans). That's where the big net profit is. They don't make much off selling park tickets.

Yeah. Seems like it was all different, or at least the perception was different. WDW didn't exist because Disney wanted to run hotels and sell timeshares. I'm beating a dead horse, but I wish Disney was trying to do something more than just make a bunch of money. Even the "better future for us all" concepts, that were once a crucial part of EPCOT Center, have been abandoned. They're not even pretending anymore.

[merciantinkerbell]

Thanks everyone for all the clarifications. We don't go until Oct 2014 when this Fastpass+ could possibly be up and running and it was a bit worrying that rides could be "booked" and we wouldn't be able to get on anything. Planning like that so far in advance is not something we want or can do. Good to know we should just be able to turn up and either stand by or get regular Fastpass

[kcrc]

I'm prefacing this by saying I have no idea what the process will look like to book the FP+ reservations.... But, I hope they take into account that all of the people in a room may not want to ride the same ride at the same time. For example, my daughter and I may want to make a FP+ reservation for Splash Mountain. My son and husband do not prefer water rides, so they could use their FP+ option for something else. Will such a situation be allowed?