hateful person/need advice...

[GA girl]

Everyone has to deal with a mean/hateful person from time to time, but I need some advice on dealing with this person when it happens to be your own daughter.

My oldest is 18 and has a big case of adultitus. She has become in the past year one of the most hateful, meanest people that you could ever have to meet. Everything is fine with her until something does not go her way and then you had better not say anything to her or even look at her. She knows everything and everyone else is stupid. Almost everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie. Even when you catch her in a bold faced lie, she will try and turn it around to make it your fault, because you should not have asked her about it anyway.

About 6 months ago we got into a huge fight and she moved in with one of her friends for about 3 days, but being without a car (that I (mean, stupid, mom) pays for), she decided to come back home. I know that I have made big mistakes and do not know what to do to change it now that she is “grown”. She will hopefully graduate in 5 weeks and she expects us to fully pay for her to go to college. Right now I just want to make sure that she does graduate so I have not been saying much to her, but after she (hopefully) graduates I just want her to leave. I hate feeling this way about my own child, but if I did not have to I would not even want to be around her. She can be the nicest, sweetest person in the world when she wants you to do something for her, but after that she could care less about anything but what she wants.

I read on facebook how everyone’s kids are the best and they are so proud of them, but all I get is disappointment from her. I did start sending her to see a professional counselor about 5 months ago. She has been by herself about 4 times and we go together next week. I have talked with the counselor also, but she can not tell me anything that they talk about together.

She just recently was fired from her job because the dumb lady that makes out the schedule put her down to work on a Saturday night and she knows that she does not work on Saturdays anymore so she did not show up for work. (this was her reasoning)

I just pray that she will grow up and realize that she is going to ruin her life, but she does not seem to care at all and I think that is what I am having the hardest time with. My husband says to just wait and make sure that she graduates and then maybe once she is sitting home with no money and no way to go anywhere that she will get it together. The only reason that I have not taken her car away is because I want to make sure that she goes to school and graduates. She has been a straight A student her entire life and is scheduled to graduate with honors. If she just goes to school and passes Calculus.

Any advice would be appreciated. I know that I am a weak parent when it comes to her and let her walk all over me.

[Belle of the Ball 051411]

I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm not a parent but I do know that you're not the first parent to say that you wish your adult kid would just leave.

It sounds to me like your daughter acts the way she does because she knows she can get away with it. I think she also feels she that is "entitled" to whatever it is she wants.

I think the best thing you could do for her and yourselves is to let her graduate (let her drive the car....) and then give her a date in which she must be gainfully employed or the car goes away.

Also, if she is graduating high school in a few weeks, does she already have plans to go to college in the fall? I don't think she should "expect" you and your husband to pay for it. My parents paid for some of it and then I worked and then I took out student loans (almost paid off!). I do think you need to have a family discussion with her about it. If you would like to help her pay for some it, let her know that she can count on X dollars from you and your husband. She then must get a job, take out student loans, apply for scholarships, etc.

I think the best advice I could give you is to tell her what you expect from her and if she doesn't follow through you need to be prepared to actually follow through with the consequences. Take her car away and make her figure it out. If she's 18 and knows so much about life and wants to be an adult, she needs to start acting like one!

If she doesn't have plans to go to college in the fall, I would tell my kid, they need to have a fulltime job (of some sorts) by a certain date in June or the car goes away. Once they have been working awhile, I would give them a date in which they must move out. Otherwise, your kid will just take advantage of you and never grow up and become a true adult. It sounds like you guys are terrific parents and your daughter is manipulating you.

Your daughter sort of reminds me of Ashley from The Real Housewives of New Jersey (in case you or anyone else watches). You have to stop giving in to her and make her grow up. She needs to learn that she needs to work for what she wants in life. Time for some tough love, in my opinion!

I wish you the best of luck. Keep us all updated!

[Belle of the Ball 051411]

One other thing, people only put on Facebook what they want you to see. People's lives are not nearly as glamorous as they may seem.

[vicster]

This is a tough one but it does sound like she needs tough love. What are her career goals for the future? Is there no way to get to school without a car? We didn't buy our daughter a car until she needed one for college - junior year she need one to go to clinicals. We never had any problems with our daughter (thank goodness) but we didn't bend to pressure when it came to buying a car. We just don't believe in giving them everything they want. Our daughter is now a teacher, very kind and thoughtful and knows the value of a dollar. Not trying to rub anything in - just a proud parent. It's a tough world today to be a parent as you always want your kids to have things you may not have had. My father was a military man and taught us some very valuable lessons.

Best of luck to your family! Hopefully, once your daughter goes away to college she'll learn the importance of her parents in her life.

[CajunDisneyDad]

I wish I could offer you any advice... I will just leave you with something I read a long time ago, it is a quote from Mark Twain ,"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years." I know I went through it when I was a teen...now I wish I were half as smart as my parents are... I pray things get better for you.

[Tygger7]

It was almost eerie reading your post...so many things sounded like what we went through with our daughter just a year ago.

The problems started for us half way through her sophmore year in high school. She started dating a guy that was a senior and suddenly the sweet girl we'd always known turned into a hateful, spiteful, and angry teen.

I won't go into all the gorey details, but I can say that we are on the other side now and she's just finishing her freshman year of college. The teen that "wanted to leave home and never ever come back again" has decided that it's way cheaper to go to a college in the area and live at home, so she is transferring and will be commuting as of this fall. I never, ever thought we'd be where we are now, so don't lose hope!! There were several things I noted where I can hopefully offer some encouragement.

1 - Counseling definitely helps! However, for our daughter, it was a little more than that. Because of her extreme mood-swings, we took her to our family doctor and she was diagnosed with depression. The doctor prescribed medication and counseling, and the combination made a HUGE difference. It didn't solve all the problems, but it helped. Our daughter went for 2 years, and we had several family sessions over that period too. It may take some time, but don't give up.

2 - "Entitlement" attitude...this is something we struggled with too. Similar situation...we provided a car at the beginning of her senior year, right before her 18th birthday. She said she would help with the payments, but has never contributed a dime, even though she had a part time job. A couple of months later, (2 weeks before Christmas, actually), there was a full-on meltdown and my husband threw her out, without her car. She stayed with her boyfriend's family for a couple of days then came home. Most of the issue revolved around the influence of the boyfriend, but it gave us an opportunity to talk to him directly and get some issues on the table. That was the last "major" blow up we had with her.

3 - College: You definitely need to talk with your husband and agree on EXACTLY what you will do to help her with the cost of college. You are not doing her any favors by picking up the full tab...it's only adding fuel to the "entitlement" fire. My DH and I agreed that we would contribute $2000 per year towards her college, and would take a Federal Parent Loan. She would get as many scholarships as possible and secure as much of the financing on her own as possible. But she would get NO MONEY unless she graduates, and she would be responsible for paying ALL the student loans, including any we took out for her education. Privately, DH and I decided that IF she had a good attitude, was appreciative, and handled herself as an adult that we would pay the loans we took out for her. (She doesn't know this, and has worked very hard in school and her attitude is greatly improved.)

4 - Pull back as a parent as much as possible. Now, this may or may not work for you...but it was truly the turning point for us. After the last blow up, DH and I decided that reality was, she was 18 and an adult. We didn't "announce" we were pulling back, we just did. For example: DD: Hey, I'm going out to a movie with my boyfried, what time do you want me home? US: Oh, whenever. DD: I mean, what time?? US: Well, we're going to bed at 10pm so it really doesn't matter to us. DD: Oh...well I'll be home by midnight. We quit doing her laundry, didn't tell her what she could and couldn't do...after all, she was 18. I totally agree with setting guidelines though about post-high school plans. For us, we knew she was going 2-hours away to college, so the guidelines were already set.

I would be more than happy to offer any support I can...I know exactly what you mean when you say you can't stand being around your daughter. We were there. Feel free to private message me if you'd like to speak privately. And most importantly, know that it will eventually get better!! Sometimes, even quicker than you think!

Hang in there!!

[DVC2004]

First off, I'm sorry you are going through this. And very true as said above about facebook, lots of people like to project a perfect life when in reality it's not. So please don't get down on yourself. As parents, we're not perfect either.

I think your thinking is right on getting her through to graduation. It sounds like she has not made any plans for college or been accepted at this point? I would sit her down when she graduates and as said above, give her the adult choice of either getting a job by a certain date or applying for colleges and financial aid or the car goes bye-bye. There is only so much you can do. Tough love.Myabe she can move out and see how easy it will be. She can have her friends drive her back and forth to work or she can take the bus.

My husband's side of the family enabled their daughters for years and years. The parents did everything for these girls through adulthood. Meaning these girls were married (mutliple times) and had children and still expected their parents to do whatever they wanted when they wanted it. Money, clothes for the kids, help pay for wedding, help pay for divorce, help to pay for house in foreclosure. Money money money. They made poor choices because they always knew mom and dad would bail them out if they were in trouble, and they would so why did they care? Not their money. One was given a college education and dropped out after 1 year. She spent the year partying and drinking and flunked out of school. The other got help for college too and she did nothing with her education but cried for years she was poor but refused to work. However, in the parents eyes my husband was the "problem child" growing up. They did not pay for college for him , did not encourage him to even go to college at all and wanted him out of the house. He went into the military right after high school where he straightened up. They never gave him help of any kind and he's better for it today.He worked, we married and both worked. We paid our own way in life and are self sufficient. Now year laters, these sisters are still a mess and can't figure out how to better themselves. As adults, they manipulated the parents by saying they needed money for their kids. The parents felt guilty and felt like the kids would have to go without, so they would pony up with anything they were asked. And, the sisters are very resentful towards us becuase they cannot believe we do what we do on our own. There is alot of attitude and accusations that we have gotten over the years sayng we are where we are by their parents help- not true at all. However this is all they know, so they refuse to believe hard work, saving and sacrifice on our part is why we have jobs and built careers, a home, a stable marriage and other things today whereas they don't. It's just not fair mom- that is what I was told one of them said to my mother in law when we bought our home after years of renting an apartment and saving a down payment. This is an ADULT who said this. An adult who already bought a home with her parents financial assistance, and lived with them rent free while she was married PRIOR to buying the home they helped her pay for. But, it wasn't fair!!! She thought our home was nicer than hers and thought the only reason we were able to buy it was from financial assistance from her mother. We didn't ask for nor receive one dime from anyone towards our home.


So it may be hard now but helping her to continue the way it is not helping her. Believe me this nastiness and entitlement will follow her through her adult life.

Good luck- you will get through this!

[btharvey]

We are praying for you.

No matter what you have done in the past, now is the time to determine exactly what is "fair," what is "right," and what is able to be done. By all means your husband and you need to speak with the same voice and be on the same page.

If necessary, arrange with your daughter's counsellor to meet together to have you let her know what you have felt, what you thought you did wrong, what you did right, what you plan to do to be fair, right and able. If you decide not to subsidize anything further until she proves worthy, by all means say so (pick less 'hot button' words, of course). If she needs to provide respect before she gets any more, then so be it. But be fair, and be consistent.

You can by all means say that you should have been consistent all along, but that you will plan to do so now. You can say she'll get some payment for college when she proves she can handle some of it herself. You can say you'd be sorry to see her go, but that if that is ultimately her wish, you'll watch her go with sadness. You can say all of these things.

Just say what you _truly_want_ to say, and be consistent about it. Be gentle about it, but be firm about it. Getting her counsellor to be there and moderate enables her to feel both trapped and supported (oddly enough), so she'll probably not react well. But the only other way to do anything is truly by letter, and she'd probably just rip that up.

In short, I'm really not giving any advice in any direction other than be fair, be what you believe is right, be able to do what you say, and be consistent. That's harder than most anything else.

Good luck!

[MississippiDisneyFreak]

It doesn't seem normal to me that someone drastically has a personality change even if its during a years course...I agree with an above poster counseling may be helpful...is itpossible there is a medical condition? Although I hope its not for your sake, is it possible there is a drug or alcohol problem? Hang in there, I hope it gets better soon.

[disney obsessed]

Always remember that this was the goal the day she was born. never feel badly about wanting them to go have their own life. That is the way it is supposed to be.

I would take a new stance upon graduation. Our way or no paying for school or living at home. Explain that she is 18 and out of high school. Being an adult has responsibilities. If she still chooses to be mean, follow through. you will do her no favors by always being there to pick up her pieces.

good luck and CONGRATULATIONS!

[joonyer]

I was a very rebellious teenager, beginning at age 15-16. (about 40 years ago. I gave my parents a lot of grief (and worse). I'll tell you how my Dad dealt with me. Until I was 18 I simply avoided him as much as possible. He was a "tough love" kinda guy (WWII veteran), although my mom was an easier mark. When I turned 18 my Dad had finally had enough of me (I had pushed them to the limit) and helaid down the law. He simply said: "You can go wherever you want, stay out however late you want, hangout with whoever you want to, and do whatever you want to do, IF you want to live in your own place, earn all your own money, and are willing to suffer all of the consequences of your choices, no matter how harsh". "But as long as you live under my roof, you will live by my rules (including curfews) and you will pay your share of rent/utilities/groceries." So, you have a choice: either get a job and stay here, which will cost you lot less than living somewhere else, OR move out and live however you can". Just don't call me when you get arrested or in trouble or need money." "Don't try coming back here in the middle of the night because the locks will be changed and the police will be called". "Make up your own mind. If you want to be treated like an adult, then start acting one."

I was mad, hurt, resentful, etc. but I chose to stay at home, got a job, paid my share of expenses, got a second job, bought a car, and eventually went to and finished college. For a while my relationship with my Dad remained very tense, but I knew he meant what he said. (that is a key, you have to stick to your guns). In about 5 years I realized how smart my parents had somehow become, when all through my teenage years, they were the stupidest people in the world. I came to have a very good relationship with them when I realized how much they loved me.

I think the only way out of this for you is to law down the law and don't look back. It won't be easy, but it will be for her benefit. That's just how "tough love " works. Otherwise, you will be manipulated for the rest of your life, and both of you will be worse off for it. Just my 2 cents worth.

[disneymom15]

It doesn't seem normal to me that someone drastically has a personality change even if its during a years course...I agree with an above poster counseling may be helpful...is itpossible there is a medical condition? Although I hope its not for your sake, is it possible there is a drug or alcohol problem? Hang in there, I hope it gets better soon.

These were my thought too. Good luck to you

[SBETigg]

One other thing, people only put on Facebook what they want you to see. People's lives are not nearly as glamorous as they may seem.

This so so true. Everyone has moments with their kids (and some of those moments last a few years). I don't have great advice but to hang in there. Trust your instincts, and just know you will get through this, and so will she. Don't be afraid to call her on it, though. Most likely, she will eventually appreciate that you were there for her and put up with her, and even that you had expectations for her to fulfill.

Sounds like a delayed adolescence almost. She's a little old for this, but people develop at different rates and my friend Kathleen used to tell me "their brains do grow back." The counseling might really help you both put things into perspective, though, and since you're doing that, I would say that you're probably doing everything you can do.

[Zippy 1]

I know exactly how you feel. We have been going through it with our DD who will be 18 next week. We did the counseling route and it did help. But the tough love was what worked the best. After checking about legal consequences we told her that if she was going to live under our roof there were rules that must be followed: curfew, grades, and how she treated us. If she could not do this then she could find another place to live. Hardest thing I have ever done! Things are much better - not saying perfect but she is learning that we will not tolerate being treated rudely. We have told here we will be supportive of her decissions when she graduates next month but we are not able to pay for college. She is going to need to work for it. Every once in a while I have to remind her of the rules mainly attitude then things settle down.
I know how tough it is to do tough love. But it can really help all involved. We have a good support system for when we feel like giving up. I wish you the best of luck and will pray for you all.

[GA girl]

Thanks for the replies. I keep telling myself that things will get better and they could be worse. So far she has not been arrested. I do not think that she is doing any drugs, but I have not had her tested. I do check her car and room and have not found anything to make me believe that drugs are involved. I know that she was/is smoking, but she denies it, even when I catch her.

The counselor has told me that I am the one that created her by letting her get away with the things that she does. She has always gotten her way. If I would tell her no, she would throw a fit, I still say no, bigger fit, NO again, really big fit until I just gave in and gave her what she wanted to get her to go away. So I know that I have to take the blame in this. I allow her to treat me like a door mat and get away with it and I do not know why!

She has had a rough year. But it is not an excuse for her to treat people the way that she does. She calls me names that you could not imagine and tries her best to hurt my feeling and she succeeds. One year ago tomorrow, her best friend was killed in a car accident. His friend was driving (both were drinking) and hit another car head on. He was killed instantly. Then last May, another friend that would have graduated with her this year was in a car accident with 2 of her other friends. He was in a coma for 3 months and passed away in August. Then…in September, the little girl that she took to school everyday committed suicide (she was only 14). I know that this has had an impact on her, which was another reason I put her in counseling. There were 2 others that were killed in a car accident a few months before Josh and another boy that committed suicide that was already in college. Those deaths had a huge impact on our entire community.

After her first visit, the counselor did tell me that she needed to talk to her more to rule out a chemical imbalance or depression problem. I go with her next week, so I will be able to find out more then. She wanted for us to come together for her last visit but my daughter did not want that. I know that she is only telling her what she wants her to know.

She does not want to talk to me about anything, unless she need money, then she is all nice and wants to talk then. Other wise her attitude is IDGA$. I have tried to give her more space to do what she wants and not be such a helicopter and was doing ok with that until she was fired and keeps coming to me wanting money.

[Belle of the Ball 051411]

Wow, my heart breaks for you, for your daughter, and for your community regarding the losses you've endured this past year. (Insert Internet hug!)

Your daughter needs to understand that sometimes bad things happen in life, but guess what, life goes on and we must deal with it; the good and the bad. It definitely sounds like the stressor or trigger with her behavior was the deaths of her classmates. I think it's great you put her in counseling. She may very well be suffering from depression, however, that doesn't excuse her behavior towards you. It's also important that you recognize that you're enabling her behavior (which you have). She knows you'll give in every single time. She plays you like a fiddle.

Kids need boundaries so you need to sit down and tell her that you now recognize the error of your ways and that because you love her, you aren't going to do it anymore (and then don't do it!). You and your husband need to sit down with her and tell her (even write it out) the things you expect from her if she wants to continue living in your house. If she doesn't obey, then there will be consequences. Again, you must follow through with the consequences. She will try and test you to see if you're being serious, so be prepared for a fight, but soon enough she'll realize you're no longer a door mat and life will be good again. (Think of it like putting a child in the naughty corner; she will test you and try to come out of the naughty corner. Every time she tries and comes out, put her back in the corner. After many attempts, she will realize you aren't backing down and will eventually calm down and sit in the corner for the designated time. The key is, you can't give up because you're frustrated or because you're tired of listening to her temper tantrum. You have to show the child who is the parent and who is the child and that they need to follow your rules or there will be consequences.) Stay strong! You and your husband need to help each other and back the other one up.

When you talk to her, talk to her like she's an adult, and talk in a nice but firm manner. Remind her that you love her but that you expect more from her, and that you want her to be the person you both know she can be.

In regards to her smoking, ugh! It's simply not a good habit or good for your health. However, I'm of the opinion that parents (even couples) need to pick their battles. She is technically, 18. It could be worse; it could be drugs. She might just be doing it to rebel or to look "cool". I would simply let her know that in your household there is no smoking inside the house or in your vehicles (including the car she drives/you pay for). So if she wants to smoke, she can, it just won't be on/in your property, and leave it at that. Don't nag her about it, chances are, she'll quit smoking on her own.

[MississippiDisneyFreak]

Sounds like you are getting help and that's good...don't be afraid to get a second opinion if you think you aren't getting results from this one. My sister is in the mental health field and from what she's told me they try not to assign blame to someone's who's trying to seek help. They usually focus more on causes and solutions.

Anyway, I really don't have any answers just wanted to offer some support.

[dnickels]

I'm sure some of this has been duplicated in previous posts but my two immediate thoughts were...

First - once she graduates, give her a drop-dead 'change your attitude or get out and support yourself' date. If she doesn't change then she's on her own. Sell the car, don't be paying for her insurance or anything else. If you keep giving in you'll be bailing her out for the rest of your life. The counseling is a good idea, but at the end of the day you can only lead the horse to water, you can't make it drink. She's on the path to being an adult who will bleed her parents of any money or energy they have and you need to make it very clear that such a path does not exist, you will let her deal with the consequences of her choices. She's (nearly) an adult now so at this point so it's time to put you on the front-burner as far as priorities go and put her on the back one.

Second - ignore everything people put on facebook. People put a lot of things on there for the purpose of impressing others or trying to portray their lives in a way that they want rather than how their lives actually are.

[Daisy'sMom]

We are praying for you. It is hard to be a parent today. I got thru many hurdles with my children, chanting "and this too shall pass." It will. Be strong, do not be manipulated. It sounds like she has that down pat. Good luck.

[GA girl]

She has been accepted to college, she was actually accepted last year with Accel to go as dual enrollment for her senior year. I'm really glad that we did not do that now! She will not even fill out applications to try and get a scholarship so I am not thinking she will be going to college this fall either. She had a 3.8 GPA on her last report card and right now she has high A's in all of her classes except math, which she has a 79 and has been bringing it up.

I know that the smoking is just to make me mad because she knows how much I hate it. She tells me that too.

Right now all is good because Prom is coming up this weekend and she "needs" me and if I would just not make her mad everything would always be great!

And she is great at manipulating things and turning them around so everyone else is at fault. She hates to be proven wrong! I am trying not to be a weak parent anymore. I know that it is only going to hurt her to keep giving to her like I do. I know this but I still do it anyway.