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View Poll Results: Worst Franchise Ever?
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Hate to say this, (well...no I don't, LOL) and I know gueli's gunna kill me, but why aren't the Jets one of the choices?
~ Haven't been to a Superbowl since 1969
~ Have only made the playoffs 10 times in the 40 years since.
~ Have finished above .500 only 16 times in their 49 years of existence.
~ Won/Loss record of 331-401, which means they could go undefeated for the next FOUR years straight and STILL have a losing all time record.
~ Have had only ONE coach (Bill Parcells) out of 16 with a winning record. (You can't count Al Groh, that was one season)
If that isn't futility, nothing is!
And gueli, before you even TRY to bring up the Dolphins...
~ Finished above .500 29 times in their 43 years
~ Were last in the superbowl in 1984
~ Have made the playoffs 22 times since 1969
~ Have a won/loss record of 380-272.
You can't win this one.
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~ Have only made the playoffs 10 times in the 40 years since.
Pagan I know you are baiting Gueli, but the above quote is all the explanation needed. A 25% playoff appearence record would be a dream come true for a number NFL fans. Thats six more playoff runs than the Cards, 9 more than the Lions, and 9 more than the current incarnation of the Browns. Over those same years the other three NFL tyeams on the list's win loss records make the Jets look like Lombardi's Packers. I think you actually made the case yourself against inclusion.
If I could have a redo I probably would pull Golden State and include the Maple Leafs, Bengals, or Pirates. I would love to include the Jaguars due to their horrible fan base but they have been pretty consistintly average, not horrible on the field.
Loads of trips since 1974...
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Originally Posted by Pagan
~ Haven't been to a Superbowl since 1969
~ Have only made the playoffs 10 times in the 40 years since.
~ Have finished above .500 only 16 times in their 49 years of existence.
Sorry Pagan, but your way off on this one. The other three teams listed in the poll combined are 14 playoff appearences and 21 seasons over .500 and 1 Super Bowl appearence... that's combined for 3 teams (granted the Browns have only been around for 10 years.) The Jets don't come close to those 3 and don't deserve to be compared to them.
But yea, they're probably in the next batch.
ETA: Greenlawler beat me to it.
Jeff
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Oh, and I just noticed...
How the heck do the Arizona Cardinals make both the elite and the worst polls.
I know, I know, the elite poll is this year and the worst is cummulative.
Jeff
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Boy...you guys know how to tinkle on a good joke, dontcha?
BTW...you can't include the Browns then in worst FRANCHISE.
The Cleveland Browns franchise at one time was the best in football. None of the others can claim that.
We're talking franchises, not just current incarnations of franchises.
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If you're going to combine the old Browns and the new Browns into one, I agree with you. That's why I specified new Browns as one of the worst.
Wasn't it just in the 80's that the Browns were a perennial playoff team with Bernie Kosar and the wizard of Ozzie Newsome? Not nearly as bad as long as some of the other teams.
Scott
2 visits as a child
6/97, 6/01, 6/04: All-Star Sports
12/05, 6/08: Pop Century
May-June/10: Animal Kingdom Lodge
5/11: All-Star Sports 1 night Epcot Flower & Garden
May 2013 POFQ (25th anniversary!)
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In fact...a little research shows that the Browns:
~ Have won 8 championships
~ Won/Loss Record is 428-372
~ Have made the playoffs 12 times since 1969
~ Have finished over .500 36 times in their 60 year history.
~ Have made the playoffs 28 times in 60 years.
Not for anything, ALL better than the Jets. So if they are included, why not the Jets?
Actually not baiting ot joking this time. This is a legitimate question.
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Originally Posted by Pagan
Boy...you guys know how to tinkle on a good joke, dontcha?
BTW...you can't include the Browns then in worst FRANCHISE.
The Cleveland Browns franchise at one time was the best in football. None of the others can claim that.
We're talking franchises, not just current incarnations of franchises.
I know this is up for debate, but as far as I'm concerned, the legacy of the Brown teams your talking about play in Baltimore now.
Jeff
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Originally Posted by Nascfan
If you're going to combine the old Browns and the new Browns into one, I agree with you. That's why I specified new Browns as one of the worst.
You have to include them bro. The Cleveland Browns are the Cleveland Browns. Doesn't matter that there was a break. It's the franchise.
Wasn't it just in the 80's that the Browns were a perennial playoff team with Bernie Kosar and the wizard of Ozzie Newsome? Not nearly as bad as long as some of the other teams.
Yup...victims of "the fumble" and "the drive".
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Originally Posted by Scar
I know this is up for debate, but as far as I'm concerned, the legacy of the Brown teams your talking about play in Baltimore now.
That makes absolutely no sense scar.
If you go by that logic, NO team can be linked to their old teams...unless of course ALL the old players are playing still.
The current Miami Dolphins have NOTHING to do with the undefeated 1972 team. They even play in a different stadium. Doesn't mean they're not the Dolphins.
They play in Cleveland. They wear the same uniforms, they're called the Browns.
That makes them the Cleveland Browns.
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See, I went a different route in my thinking. When Modell moved them to Baltimore, in my thought process the franchise just moved there under a different name. Hence, the new Browns are a new franchise, follow where I'm going?
I see Scar took the same route.
But see, the old teams ARE still playing. The Miami Dolphins are still the Miami Dolphins. They didn't mover the Dolphins to another city, give them a new name, then bring in another Miami Dolphins team after a break since '72, did they?
Scott
2 visits as a child
6/97, 6/01, 6/04: All-Star Sports
12/05, 6/08: Pop Century
May-June/10: Animal Kingdom Lodge
5/11: All-Star Sports 1 night Epcot Flower & Garden
May 2013 POFQ (25th anniversary!)
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That depends on how you want to look at it.
According to the NFL, it's the same team.
Go look it up.
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Originally Posted by Pagan
That depends on how you want to look at it.
According to the NFL, it's the same team.
Go look it up.
Yes, but that is only because the NFL was scared from Cleveland threatening to sue them. They are the only US professional sports team (that I'm aware of) to get that.
Jeff
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Originally Posted by Pagan
That depends on how you want to look at it.
According to the NFL, it's the same team.
Go look it up.
Yeah, it's a matter of how we all want to look at it. I look at it as a different franchise, a new franchise as they ceased to exist when the franchise moved to Baltimore. Just like the Ravens are not the same franchise that existed in Baltimore under Unitas and others as the Colts, that franchis plays in Indianapolis now. Following your logic, Baltimore Ravens would be the same as the old Baltimore Colts, but it's all in how we all choose to look at it.
I honestly don't know how to look up the franchise license numbers, but I'm sure there's a way to get that information and really find out which team is truly which.
Scott
2 visits as a child
6/97, 6/01, 6/04: All-Star Sports
12/05, 6/08: Pop Century
May-June/10: Animal Kingdom Lodge
5/11: All-Star Sports 1 night Epcot Flower & Garden
May 2013 POFQ (25th anniversary!)
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Originally Posted by Nascfan
Yeah, it's a matter of how we all want to look at it. I look at it as a different franchise, a new franchise as they ceased to exist when the franchise moved to Baltimore. Just like the Ravens are not the same franchise that existed in Baltimore under Unitas and others as the Colts, that franchis plays in Indianapolis now. Following your logic, Baltimore Ravens would be the same as the old Baltimore Colts, but it's all in how we all choose to look at it.
If the Ravens were still called the Colts and still had a horseshoe on the side of the helmet, then I'd agree with you.
I honestly don't know how to look up the franchise license numbers, but I'm sure there's a way to get that information and really find out which team is truly which.
Wikipedia is a good start.
*EDIT* oh wait, license numbers. Nah, I have no idea either.
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Originally Posted by Pagan
*EDIT* oh wait, license numbers. Nah, I have no idea either.
Yeah, that's the only way to really know for 100% sure just which franchise is which.
Oh well, good discussion, just different points of view of a who's who of NFL teams.
Scott
2 visits as a child
6/97, 6/01, 6/04: All-Star Sports
12/05, 6/08: Pop Century
May-June/10: Animal Kingdom Lodge
5/11: All-Star Sports 1 night Epcot Flower & Garden
May 2013 POFQ (25th anniversary!)
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The Browns franchise as I look at it for the sake of the poll is the current franchise.
The old Browns are in fact the Ravens. Just like the old Colts are the new Colts, the St.Louis Rams are the L.A. Rams, and the Oilers are the Titans. The Browns were an expansion team, and in their brief stay in football they have proceeded to be outdone by just about every franchise in the NFL including the recent expansion brothers.
If we were talking Browns of old they would not be on this list.
Loads of trips since 1974...
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here is an interesting question then. Who are the worst ten franchises in football?
Remember I am not taking into account the current status of the team. The fans, history, tradition, all should be noted:
1. Lions: Obvious answer
2. Browns (current run) A new level of fuetlity
3. Cardinals: Four playoff total
4. Bengals: Ownership, dismal decades with rare glimpses of greatness
5. Falcons: Empty seats, lackluster fans
6. Saints: How many playoff runs? Before Katrina most people felt little pity for the worst franchise at the time, by far.
7. Texans: While young they have yet to produced a single winning season.
8. Jaguars: Just watch in awe of that empty stadium
9. Raiders: While a traditional powerhouse for years the constant moving, the coaching follies, and Al Davis give them a spot here.
10. Seahawks: Where 8-8 is a state of mind
Loads of trips since 1974...
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Originally Posted by Greenlawler
here is an interesting question then. Who are the worst ten franchises in football?
Remember I am not taking into account the current status of the team. The fans, history, tradition, all should be noted:
1. Lions: Obvious answer
2. Browns (current run) A new level of fuetlity
3. Cardinals: Four playoff total
4. Bengals: Ownership, dismal decades with rare glimpses of greatness
5. Falcons: Empty seats, lackluster fans
6. Saints: How many playoff runs? Before Katrina most people felt little pity for the worst franchise at the time, by far.
7. Texans: While young they have yet to produced a single winning season.
8. Jaguars: Just watch in awe of that empty stadium
9. Raiders: While a traditional powerhouse for years the constant moving, the coaching follies, and Al Davis give them a spot here.
10. Seahawks: Where 8-8 is a state of mind
Good list, but again...where are the Jets? Not trying to annoy Jet fans, but surely the Raiders history is more storied than the Jets.
If the Seahawks are listed due to 8-8 being a state of mine, that would certainly be a move upward historically for the NY franchise.
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Originally Posted by Pagan
Good list, but again...where are the Jets? Not trying to annoy Jet fans, but surely the Raiders history is more storied than the Jets.
If the Seahawks are listed due to 8-8 being a state of mine, that would certainly be a move upward historically for the NY franchise.
There are other reasons why I listed the Seahawks, but I did not want to write a novel.
Look the Jets franchise is not a bad franchise. They are among the most loyal fans in the league, thier stability, fan support (they are always in the top ten in attendance), overcomes allot of their miscues on the field. Really you are looking through Dolphins colored glasses. BTW the Jets outdrew the Phins by 10,000 fans last year. I wish I could rank the Ravens or Colts (who have horrible band wagon fans ) here but I know that would be personal bias.
I guess if you are forcing my hand I am not sure where I would place the Jets. I am certain I would rank Tampa Bay at 11. Who since 1980 has had a winning percentage of .395 the fourth worst in all of pro sports. At 12 Carolina. Then however the word worst franchise really does not cut it, as we venture to the middle of the road franchises.
Loads of trips since 1974...
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