Deadly Disney World Monorail Crash-Updated with NTSB Report

[DizneyRox]

My daughter is freaked out to ride on the monorail next week, wwyd?? She is going for her 10th bday to MK.

I'd take the ferry... No need to push it.

[DizneyRox]

I guess what I'm confused about is how, in all the time Pink was going backward, A) no one noticed Pink wasn't on the spur? B) why would Pink's MAPO need to be overridden? C) unless BOTH switches are moved, Pink would have needed to stop on the spur. D) While Epcot had closed, wasn't MK still open and guests would need transported to TTC? So why do you do the full switch when you'd have to stop using the Express Loop?

Pretty much why I said ALL trains on impacted beams should be stopped during a switch, except the switching trains. Seems like a process prone to failure and no need to complicate things by having moving trains part of the dance.

a. It's VERY dark over that part of the track. It really doens't surprised me it was difficult to see. That's the reason for backup cameras (and they should be night vision type cameras as well)
b. Happens during a track switch. Must override the system to perform a switch.
c. Yes, since pink traveled through the TTC, it's safe to assume that BOTH switches were supposed to move, otherwise pink would of driven into a closed beam.
d. MK was closed already. DHS was open late that night. They were probably only running a few trains just to allow guests to get back to their cars.

Yes, as I mentioned, apparently both switches were moved to accompish the maneuver, so yes, the express loop would have to be at a standstill.

[SBETigg]

Shari, I would just avoid the monorail for a little while if she's scared. Maybe next time.

I just read that two employees were suspended without pay over the monorail incident. The manager who was at a restaurant communicating via radio, and the maintenance worker on the other end of the radio. Earlier Sunday, the monorail central coordinator had gone home sick, which is supposedly what lead to the manager filling in via radio.

From an Orlando news source, via another website.

[Zone Stop]

Safe Bet....

but seriously, the manager would have had little control over that situation anyway. Managers have been known to have little knowledge of the technical systems in the past (cough RESORTS cough)

Managers are often moved around and shuffled between assignments as part of reorganization.
I know two former transportation managers that were randomly moved there from merchandising.

One day...customer service at Days of Christmas...
The next...on a Segway in EPCOT telling a friendship boat driver how to dock.

True story

Aside from the first part, about the Manager being out of a job, I have never agreed so strongly with one of your posts.

Also, managers aren't allowed to take lunch breaks now, just because trains are moving?

[MidnTPK]

My daughter is freaked out to ride on the monorail next week, wwyd?? She is going for her 10th bday to MK.

I'd share the truth....that the WDW monorail is still one of the safest ways to travel. I'm not a big fan of enabling kids to maintain their irrational fears. Would you not drive a car on your street if there were a deadly accident near your home?

[Goofster]

Probably very true. Disney wants this entire thing to go away as quickly and quietly as possible, I'm sure. They've probably already got a check drafted with the next-of-kin's name on it and a "fill in the blank" sign next to the dollar amount.

Really depends on Florida and their worker compensation laws since he was killed while on duty. Potential claims could be limited, capped, or required to be made as a state claim for compensation.

[lockedoutlogic]

Aside from the first part, about the Manager being out of a job, I have never agreed so strongly with one of your posts.

Also, managers aren't allowed to take lunch breaks now, just because trains are moving?

there is a widespread misconception from customers as to exactly what managers at WDW are....

what they do, what responsibilities they have, where they come from.

this is not the time or place...but it would be nice to have a real discussion of the role of WDW frontline managers - past, present, and future

[Jll3Sonex]

My daughter is freaked out to ride on the monorail next week, wwyd?? She is going for her 10th bday to MK.

I'd not even mention it again, and change the subject if she mentions it, then just... do it when you're there. Go up toward the monorails like it's a totally usual thing, and don't make a big deal about it. I think once she sees they're moving people w/no problem, she'll follow the crowd. If she really stalls, take the ferry - but if you make like nothing's wrong, likely she'll act the same way.

[Ian]

Really depends on Florida and their worker compensation laws since he was killed while on duty. Potential claims could be limited, capped, or required to be made as a state claim for compensation.

Ahh ... very good point. I forgot this was a workers' comp kind of situation.

[lockedoutlogic]

Ahh ... very good point. I forgot this was a workers' comp kind of situation.

well....not to go to the bad place....but it is widely held that Disney has considerable, (and the assumption is -inappropriate) influence over the courts in Orange County as well....

Roy O. did a masterful job of bending the localities and florida government around disney's goals in the late 60's....there's been several good accounts written mentioning this....

so any litigation against disney is always an uphill battle.
couple that with the fact that former Gov Jeb and Florida are far from a labor friendly state (in regards to workers comp)...and it is a daunting challenge to anyone involved.

The wildcard is the federal government....as recent regime change and events probably puts the federals' tolerance for corporate bullying at an alltime low. (they are...of course....completely lawyer friendly as well)
so a damaging NTSB or OSHA report citing Disney will all but make the checks blank...

this is a tragic event...but...it could show alot of insight to the observer of how disney's legal process works.

Some of us are very interested in that type of thing.

Realize, i am in no way discrediting the loss of life or the shock it means....the event was horrible...the by product could be informative

[SamG]

b. Happens during a track switch. Must override the system to perform a switch.

Hindsight being 20/20, but if I understand correctly, MAPO keeps trains from getting too close to each other. Why would it be designed so MAPO needs to be overridden to put trains in reverse? Or is it because the train needs to go onto the spur? Not that I have any say, but wouldn't it make sense to split those? One warning signal/emergency braking for "close calls" (with an override-- maybe a two person one?), and a 2nd warning signal with it's OWN override in order to move a train onto a spur?

Just a thought.

[SBETigg]

I just read that two employees were suspended without pay over the monorail incident. The manager who was at a restaurant communicating via radio, and the maintenance worker on the other end of the radio. Earlier Sunday, the monorail central coordinator had gone home sick, which is supposedly what lead to the manager filling in via radio.

From an Orlando news source, via another website.

A correction. The Orlando Sentinel reports that three employees (the other monorail pilot as well as the above mentioned) are on paid leave while the investigation is ongoing, not suspended without pay as previously reported.

[WDWdriver]

From WFTV Channel 9 News

3 Disney Workers Suspended Over Monorail Crash

Posted: 4:48 pm EDT July 9, 2009Updated: 5:07 pm EDT July 9, 2009
ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Disney confirmed Thursday afternoon that three workers were suspended as part of the investigation into a deadly monorail accident. Eyewitness News has also confirmed the federal investigation into the accident will end Friday or Saturday.

The National Transportation Safety Board's fact-finding investigation into the monorail crash that killed 21-year-old rail driver Austin Wuennenberg is nearly complete. Facts released so far show the train that was backing up and struck Wuennenberg's train was supposed to be switched to another track, but that didn't happen.

The NTSB has found no mechanical failures with track switches or the system that stops trains.

Wednesday night, a former monorail driver with friends still in the area told Eyewitness News a series of safeguards appear to have been ignored all at the same time.

Thursday, Disney confirmed that a monorail pilot, a monorail shop worker and transportation manager were placed on paid administrative leave related to the investigation.

A different former driver with two friends still at Disney told Eyewitness News off camera the manager and another employee were at Denny's across the street from Disney property and it was left to a maintenance worker to make the switch.

A source close to the investigation confirmed the manager was not in the area at the time of the crash.

Eyewitness News requested an interview with the NTSB investigator on the ground, but he's reportedly too busy. But, according to the NTSB's first report, Wuennenberg stopped his train and tried to reverse it away from the oncoming train.

The NTSB says its investigator will go back to Washington DC when he wraps up the investigation and they will piece the whole thing together to determine what went wrong.

[DizneyRox]

MAPO keeps trains from getting too close to each other. Why would it be designed so MAPO needs to be overridden to put trains in reverse? Or is it because the train needs to go onto the spur? Not that I have any say, but wouldn't it make sense to split those? One warning signal/emergency braking for "close calls" (with an override-- maybe a two person one?), and a 2nd warning signal with it's OWN override in order to move a train onto a spur?

That's why I think train movement should be stopped on impacted beams when a switch is happening. With one train in override, it's possible others could be put into a dangerous situation (like trying to get out of the way) and not being able to move without performing their own override.

In your scenario, a two person override would have been necessary to move purple bakwards to get out of the way, and with only one driver, purple would have been stuck. Same result.

If all trains are stopped, purple would not have been moving into the TTC with pink making a switch further up the beam. Purple would have been stopped further down the line, possibly far enough that pink would have realized by then that they were in the wrong and been able to stop.

Again, the whole hindsight thing, but I don't think they would be any worse for wear. You can't make things foolproof. As soon as you think you do, along comes a smarter fool.

[MNNHFLTX]

If WFTV's source is accurate about his facts, this is beyond disturbing.

[gueli]

Again,
I feel so bad for the other (pink) pilot.
The more I think about it, him backing up through the Very well Lighted TTC, and I believe there is a bend also, how could he have seen too well into the darkness where purple monrail was coming...
There is so much sadness and guilt to go around.

My best to the family of Austin Wuennenberg.
My best to the Disney family that lost him.

My sympathies for all involved...

[MkDsny]

My heart goes out to all of those involved, especially to Austin's family and friends.

I guess I still have a question in all of this. Even with the manager and cast member off-site, if you pilot a monorail at Disney and supposedly know your way around, how do you not know that you are not on the right track? If you are switching from Epcot to MK Express, there would be a track to your right side. Even with all visual impairments that the trains seem to have (low light levels, no clear rear view, etc.), the pilot would be able to look out the side of their cockpit and see that the track was on the wrong side or that there was no track where there should be. So many things here just don't make sense or maybe have not sunk-in, yet. So sad...

[Chescat]

I ride in the front of the monorails at DLR all the time. The new system they have in theirs has two monitors. One is for the monorail cars and one is for the front and back. It would seem like an upgrade like that should be installed in the WDW ones since there are more of them there. I probably don't know as much as Mufasa does about our system, but that's what it appears to be.

Somebody also mentioned about less people on the boats. That worries me if that's true. That led to our accident with the Columbia I believe it was, when the inexperienced person didn't put the rope right around the dock right and it was pulled out and killed the one person and injured some others.

Seems like when parks are busy like a 4th of July or other holidays, things are not done normally and may make for mistakes. Thing is, there needs to be a lessons learned from the loss of Austin.

[Celestria]

this may be a bit off topic, but do you think they will replace the two (or more) sections of the monorail trains? it would be better than scraping both trains completly.

if this has been answered somewhere and i missed it, please direct me in the right direction

[lockedoutlogic]

this may be a bit off topic, but do you think they will replace the two (or more) sections of the monorail trains? it would be better than scraping both trains completly.

if this has been answered somewhere and i missed it, please direct me in the right direction

that is the likely course....or perhaps even remachine the existing cars and then place them back into service....

it's pretty clear now that nothing was wrong with the trains...so there's no need to scrap anything

those trains are pretty expensive...and built by a European firm if i remember correctly....i'm sure scraping is a final option