Is DDP "killing" Disney dining??

[dnickels]

Yes, but I fail to see how their option of not choosing the dining plan would affect their food. The dining plan is still in place. It's not as if the kitchen staff preps special food for those not on the plan vs on the plan. They're in the kitchen making food. Why would they take time to care who's on the dining plan or not?

I'll grant that before the plan was implemented that the food was better in general. But I won't allow that buying the dining plan or not has any effect on what is served to you at the table on a meal to meal basis, though it may arguably impact service. Do your neighbors really believe they were served better food because they were not on the dining plan? That someone making their food is paying deliberate attention to how people are paying for it? I would think that they simply enjoyed it more when believing themselves free of something they actually considered a hassle to them.

I can't speak for the OPs friends, but I think it's the general long term trend you mentioned. Obviously it makes no difference whether I'm on the DDP or paying cash if I walk into Le Celier tonight and order a steak, I'm getting the same meat prepared the same way. But in the macro long term sense (and I'm just making up numbers here) what is happening is that really good steak dinner that used to cost $60 out of pocket has been reduced in size/quality/side dish selection so that the quality is comparable to the $30 chicken pasta meal.

Prior to DDP if you wanted the really good meal in a restaurant and were willing to pay for it you would actually receive something of higher quality. With the introduction of DDP and the 'pick anything on the menu' idea, that $60 dinner was hurting Disney a lot more than the $30 dinner so the more expensive one gets watered down.

Also as others have mentioned, I remember when I was a kid my dad would make reservations in the morning. We'd wake up and decide we wanted to go to park A and make a reservation at park A. I can't imagine having to decide where I'll want to eat 180 or 90 days in advance.

[bkfree]

I'll be the Lone Ranger on this one. We have always used the Dining plan and we LOVE it.
I also always make my ADR's in advance and love that also. It takes away alot of stress about where we are going to eat dinner each day. We also usually pay one or 2 meals OOP, usually breakfast buffets.
I have never seen any difference between the meal or service whether we used the DDP or paid OOP.
We just returned in Dec from trip #3 and again we have no complaints at all about our meals for service and I am sure we will again use the DDp next time.
I would hate if they did away with ADR's and that change might cause us to stay offsite as not to have to fight the throngs of walkins for spots.
One thing I do when I make our ADRS and they ask if we are using the DIning Plan, I just answer that we are not sure yet.

[Luv Eeyore]

When tips were included in the DDP, we definitely noticed a difference in service. Our biggest beef (pun intended) is with the difficulty in getting ADR's if you don't call at the very beginning of the booking window and the decided lack of variety in food choices, especially for our kids. I understand that lots of kids are picky eaters, but given the level of creativity Disney is capable of, one would think they could come up with more food choices.

[SBETigg]

I can't speak for the OPs friends, but I think it's the general long term trend you mentioned. Obviously it makes no difference whether I'm on the DDP or paying cash if I walk into Le Celier tonight and order a steak, I'm getting the same meat prepared the same way. But in the macro long term sense (and I'm just making up numbers here) what is happening is that really good steak dinner that used to cost $60 out of pocket has been reduced in size/quality/side dish selection so that the quality is comparable to the $30 chicken pasta meal.

I wasn't talking about the long-term trend. I agreed that long term, the dining plan has affected the food. But now that the DP is in place, the OP stated that this family felt their food was better this time specifically because they didn't buy the dining plan vs the last time when they did buy the dining plan and it wasn't actually a statement on the long term effects of the dining plan on the food. I was questioning that the food could have actually been better for someone off the dining plan vs someone using the dining plan ordering the same food from the same menu in the same restaurant? I don't think so. I just don't believe that the kitchen discriminates between patrons paying one way vs another.

[dnickels]

Maybe I mis-understood, I thought the OPs friends were comparing their experience from a year ago to their experience just recently? Did I miss something where they saw a night to night difference between being on DDP and paying out of pocket?

I agree with you there's no difference on a nightly basis but I think over a year there definitely is.

[SBETigg]

But in that case, your argument is that the food has gotten better since WDW implemented the DDP?

Now we're belaboring the point, but let me try to explain my position. My understanding is that the OP said the neighbor used the DDP a year ago and went without it recently, and they thought the food was better recently. The dining plan was still in place on both trips, they just opted not to buy it. So how does this fit the argument that the dining plan as made it all worse? Did I misunderstand the original post? The neighbors found the food better now, with the dining plan in place but just that they didn't buy it. This is not making a statement on long-term DP effects. This is saying that the food is better when you don't buy the currently offered Dining Plan. And I don't see how that statement could possibly be true.

[SBETigg]

Maybe I mis-understood, I thought the OPs friends were comparing their experience from a year ago to their experience just recently? Did I miss something where they saw a night to night difference between being on DDP and paying out of pocket?

I agree with you there's no difference on a nightly basis but I think over a year there definitely is.

But in that case, your argument is that the food has gotten better since WDW implemented the DDP?

Now we're belaboring the point, but let me try to explain my position. My understanding is that the OP said the neighbor used the DDP a year ago and went without it recently, and they thought the food was better recently. The dining plan was still in place on both trips, they just opted not to buy it. So how does this fit the argument that the dining plan has made it all worse? Did I misunderstand the original post? The neighbors found the food better now, with the dining plan in place but just that they didn't buy it. This is not making a statement on long-term DP effects. This is saying that the food is better when you don't buy the currently offered Dining Plan. And I don't see how that statement could possibly be true.

[MickeyMousse]

My neighbors made the point that the DDP food and service they had last year was definitely lacking compared to their recent trip when they paid OOP and ate at the same restaurants.

I have to wonder if some kitchens/servers might take better care of OOP vs DP. And yes, they know by the order receipts who is OOP and who is DP.

[DizneyRox]

My neighbors made the point that the DDP food and service they had last year was definitely lacking compared to their recent trip when they paid OOP and ate at the same restaurants.

I have to wonder if some kitchens/servers might take better care of OOP vs DP. And yes, they know by the order receipts who is OOP and who is DP.

In terms of service, yes, I would say it's possible that they got better service this year since tip IS NOT included than last year when they knew what the server was going to get.

In terms of quality of food, I agree, the chef's don't discriminate between DDP guests and OOP guests. Maybe it would come out to your table hotter/fresher than last year when they may not have cared enough, but that shouldn't make a huge difference.

But yes, long term food quality for the entire resort, including choice, quality of the food, quantity, have all suffered due to the DDP.

[MMFreak]

I agree with SBETigg.

If it was so bad how could it improve? By the way for those that suggested it was a tip thing, last year the diner was responsible for the tip just like this year so service would not have been the issue.

Perhaps they just happened to hit restaurants last year that had servers having a bad day (shrug). I think that Disney food is good. I have used the dining plan on some trips and other trips I have not. I find it easier as you know the bulk of your meals are paid for. We go to the same restaurants every year dining plan or not.

Everyone will just have to agree to disagree. Life is short don't sweat the small stuff. Enjoy an amusement ride, a parade, perhaps a show, the atmosphere. If you want 5 star dining I am sure there are other restaurants outside of Disney that can give you all of the attention and wonderful food that you require on your vacation

[mermaidmarian]

I think the DDP has Disney Dining in a death grip; I think it is pure speculation whether the patient can be saved or not, although I am hopeful.

We have never done the DDP, as I am an avowed "winger" and the (since revised) 180 booking window, DDP, requisite ADRs and "winging" are wholly incompatible. Consequently, our dining habits at Disney rarely include TS dining now; we eat chiefly CS at the parks and FC at the resort, with notable exceptions for 1-2 character meals and a trip to the Biergarten each trip. A trip to Disney is no longer much of a dining experience.

It might help fill beds and parks for longer stays, but it has to be a money loser for the Dining Division and it has done a real number on the quality of their product.

I think they should eliminate the whole program and find other ways to create a perception of value for guests, without removing what is actually of value.

[Aurora]

My neighbors made the point that the DDP food and service they had last year was definitely lacking compared to their recent trip when they paid OOP and ate at the same restaurants.

I have to wonder if some kitchens/servers might take better care of OOP vs DP. And yes, they know by the order receipts who is OOP and who is DP.

A couple of questions:

Did they vacation at the same time last trip -- i.e. January or low season?

Were they talking about the variety of the food choices or just saying that the food was in general, hotter, tastier, etc.?

As an aside, hate to sound like an old fogey, but years ago (cue harmonica), one assumed that when you visited WDW, you were going to eat poorly. The food quality IMHO has risen in great increments over the last, I would say, 8-10 years, on and off the plan.

I do think they need to do something about the ADR debacle. I think that's just frustrating all the way 'round.

[mermaidmarian]

Did I misunderstand the original post? The neighbors found the food better now, with the dining plan in place but just that they didn't buy it. This is not making a statement on long-term DP effects. This is saying that the food is better when you don't buy the currently offered Dining Plan. And I don't see how that statement could possibly be true.

This is how I understood the OP as well. I agree that there could be no way that the fact of not being on the DP from one year to another (all other variables being equal) would have any effect on the quality of food/service received. For that to be true, there would have to be two tiers of service, product and menu offerings; one for DDP guests and one for non-DDP guests. To my knowledge, no such tiered system exists, and I would be greatly surprised to learn I was wrong.

[motherof4]

In response to your question about ddp I have 4 children 3 are teens and I wouldn't do disney without the dining plan it is great and they give alot of food so much to the point you are so full you can't move. there is no way I could afford going to disney and eating meals and snacks without being on this plan.It's up to you but if you have a large family it is totally worth it.

[DizneyRox]

It's up to you but if you have a large family it is totally worth it.

Can you explain how the size of the family matters? The cost for the DDP is $38.99 per adult. There isn't a discount for more than 2, etc, so the economics don't matter the more people in your party.

I know for us, we spend well less than the $80 per day the DDP would cost us on food. We would't normally eat until we couldn't move so why would I pay more for something that would make me feel obligated to?

Now, if you are talking about the "free" dining, YES, the more poeple you shove in the room and blanket them with "free" dining, the value gets better, but the guest limit on rooms tends to limit their exposure to this as well. Values ARE a better value with the "free" dining promotions. Moderates are less of one, and the deluxe are even less. This is why I believe ethat Disney will start offering different levels of dining plans based on the level of accomodations. Values will probably get the quick service plan, moderates will get the standard dining plan, and deluxe will get the deluxe dining plan. We'll see in a few months, but the quick service was just introduced so I'm almost willing to bet they are tweaking it for the eventual tiered "free" dining promotion.

[DisneyFr33k]

Lots of issues here. We personally love ADR's as we are a "planning" family. We like knowing when and where we will eat our table service each day and know we won't have to wait in line for a table - which can get long. We went last October and didn't find a decline in quality of food or service. We were disappointed in the changes to the DDP - tips no longer included and removal of the appetizer. If they had to remove something, at least make it a choice if would we like an appetizer or dessert.

Just our two cents. We all have different expectations and react to those being met or not.

[jszczur5]

And having to make those ADRs so far in advance is a bummer. I loved it when you could just walk up and get in, no hassle. This has all changed with the plan in place whether one buys the dining plan or not.

Oh my goodness, I must be in the minority here. I love the DDP (especially because it has always been "Free"). Planning our park days, and where we are going to eat each meal is the highlight of my pre-planning. I surf all the different boards, read dining reviews, look at people's pictures of food, drool for days, and plan accordingly.
Every year, we revisit old favourites, and try some new places. Some are a definite home run ('Ohana and Kona) and others are a mere single (Coral Reef), but I treasure the experience of each. Planning my ADR's is my favourite part!!
I don't feel the need to order the most expensive item on the menu, nor do we take most of the desserts offered at the CS locations. We don't abuse the program. We just enjoy it for what it is.

[TheRustyScupper]

1) For those of us who like great food, DDP KILLED dining.
2) For those who simply want to pig-out, DDP is wonderful. (Greed is good?)

NOTE - PERSONAL OPINION: The DDP has allowed people to take kids to finer eateries. Many kids misbehave or do not behave well, as they don't get to better restaurants often. And, many of the parents don't know any better. That is one reason we avoid Signature eateries at WDW. (Of course, we also say away due to the dumbed-down menus.)

[Hammer]

1) For those of us who like great food, DDP KILLED dining.

NOTE - PERSONAL OPINION: The DDP has allowed people to take kids to finer eateries. Many kids misbehave or do not behave well, as they don't get to better restaurants often. And, many of the parents don't know any better. That is one reason we avoid Signature eateries at WDW. (Of course, we also say away due to the dumbed-down menus.)

Rusty, I do not totally agree with your opinion, though I agree with it to an extent. It has dumbed down the menus at regular TS restaurants, but not the Signature Dining establishments. I'll use California Grill as an example. First time I dined there was 2000 (pre-DDP) and have been consistently dining there ever since. While there have been slight changes, the menu has basically stayed the same. Most of the sushi choices are the same or slight variations, goat cheese ravioli is still there, as is the signature pork tenderloin and Beef filet (though the sauce seems to change about every 3 months). A menu I viewed from December 2008 had an appetizer choice of seared loin of rabbit. Hardly a "dumbed down" menu choice. The only signature where I have seen a noticeable change to lesser cuts and menu choices is Artist Point and is consequently off our list (as is Yachtsman, but that is due to the high end steakhouses we can dine at home and Yachtsman doesn't offer any different experience than these places).

Now, as to the OP's question. It is my opinion that the DDP has watered down the choices at
1 TS credit restaurants, though there are one or two restaurants which still have a couple of unique entrées. It is just not at the level of variety that it once was. Personally, I've had at least good service if not higher at WDW restaurants, regardless if I am using the DDP on a trip or not.

[Maleficent's Dad]

I am not a fan of the DDP, but like DizneyRox stated above - the service would more likely be affected than the food quality in set restaurants. Chefs aren't picking out those who are on the plan vs. those who are paying OOP.

1) For those of us who like great food, DDP KILLED dining.
2) For those who simply want to pig-out, DDP is wonderful. (Greed is good?)

Well stated, and unfortunately, very true. Our society feels that "more is better." Very sad. I mean, really, do you have to glutton yourself to the point of being "stuffed" at every meal? Is that how a lunch or dinner is deemed to be of good quality today? Quantity over quality? Mass food over healthy portions? Really very sad. Just read some of the above posts - people freely admitting that they ate so much food ("too much food") and left restaurants so stuffed/full that they couldn't move. It makes me sad that this is what we've become.

Just look at the problems that our country is facing with health care due to obesity. And I'm not just talking about a small percentage - overweight = greater risk for health problems; this equates to greater burdens to the rest of the nation when it comes to health care premiums.

The DDP has allowed people to take kids to finer eateries. Many kids misbehave or do not behave well, as they don't get to better restaurants often. And, many of the parents don't know any better. That is one reason we avoid Signature eateries at WDW. (Of course, we also say away due to the dumbed-down menus.)

Well Rusty, on the rare occasion, I do have to disagree with you - but only to an extent.
Both of my kids go to Signature Restaurants in WDW often; but we have never utilized the dining plan. My kids do know how to be have, and we do expect them to do just that.
But I must admit, since we're in WDW, (1) we plan plenty of dining experiences for the kids (ie: Character Meals), and (2) I fully expect to see kids in most eateries - it is a family destination...

The only signature where I have seen a noticeable change to lesser cuts and menu choices is Artist Point and is consequently off our list

Good point, Christine - I'm always curious as to why more people haven't noticed Artist Point's demise. While not a total train-wreck, it is not the same place that it was three years ago - that is for certain. The quality - and to quote Jym - consistency have greatly diminished. Yet it still gets raves...

It is my opinion that the DDP has watered down the choices at
1 TS credit restaurants, though there are one or two restaurants which still have a couple of unique entrées. It is just not at the level of variety that it once was.

I believe that this sums it up best. Well stated! It was the point I was trying to make originally.