Bus Troubles

[WDWdriver]

Honestly, I think that the most fair option is for the rest of the party or at least one party representative to get in the line normally, and the person on the scooter can load with them when they reach the front.

As a former Disney bus driver (and without taking any sides here), I can offer an explanation why the scooters (we call them ECVs) and wheelchairs are loaded first. It can't be done while other passengers are boarding because:
A - the designated tiedown spots are near the rear doors, and movement of other passengers from the front of the bus to the back would block the aisle and create confusion while we were trying to load the wheelchair or ECV.

B - The fold down seats in the tie down area must be raised in order to position the wheelchair or ECV. Those seats may already be occupied if other passengers boarded first. This forces the driver to ask those already seated to move, creating a potential guest irritant or conflict.

As for the time it takes to secure a wheelchair or ECV in the bus, the driver must take care to insure that all tiedown straps are properly secured. The last thing a driver wants is an unrestrained scooter on his bus while rounding a curve. It has happened.

[btharvey]

I'll go back to my statement that Disney will choose a path. Whether it be limits, wholesale stated endorsements, driver training (which some of them need anyway), or special services which provide special access to those who need and leave the regulars to the regulars, or say that scooters aren't allowed and only wheelchairs are permitted -- scooters may be rented at a discounted price at the parks -- they'll come up with something. It's only now bubbling. It won't go away.

Ok, I've muttered much too much, much too late on this here east coast ....

[EditReject]

You think you don't like WAITING while one is loaded? Try being told you have to GIVE UP your seat because you happened to be seated in the area where the scooter must be tied down!!!

There are signs posted above these seats that warn you that you will have to give up your seat if someone comes along in a scooter or a wheelchair. Don't sit there in the first place.

I myself use a wheelchair full-time due to a disability since birth and this is a topic that has me torn as I can see both sides of the argument. Other than my love of all things Disney, a main reason I enjoy Disney World is how they treat the disabled population. I know I can go there and not have to worry about not being able to enjoy and do and go wherever and on whatever I want. As a result (which everbody knows) this has led people to severely abuse this goodwill that Disney affords its disabled guests.

After a lengthy absence from the World, I have been fortunate to have gone there 3 times in the last year and I cannot believe the number of scooters that have now seem to overun the place. Every bus I was on seemed to have one scooter and I agree with the previous posts in that if you have an inexperienced scooter driver coupled with a clueless bus driver, getting it loaded and tied down is a chore. I am able to zip right on and my chair is a snap to tie down so it pains me at times to have to wait for a scooter to load as well.

At times I do feel a bit of guilt as I get to load the bus first (especially when the lines are long at the end of the day) but it usually quickly passes as I know once I leave I am back in the "real world" where everything is still not accessible and some people do not even acknowledge you as a person.

I know I got a bit off-topic but my thinking is this...try not to generalize. Yes, some people are abusing this privilege but for many people, the scooters are allowing them the opportunity to enjoy the resort whereas at one time they could not.

[offwego]

One other thing to keep in mind is that even those who use a scooter at home may (due to their flights) not have their scooter with them.
My mother (who has used a scooter full time at her work for instance) has rented them at home here in Canada and driven down with them when required for WDW (her work one was purchased for her by her employers and as such she didn't feel she could take it with her) each time she's rented one it's been a different model with different controls turn radius etc.
One other factor is that many who do use them don't use them on public transit in their "real" life. The two different designs of the buses are also a factor, the ramp ones are far easier to navigate the lift ones present the challenge of backing in (essentially blind for many who's mobility limitations include craining around their necks and backs) and the weird feeling of driving forward onto empty space when leaving.

Having gone with family and friends who are required to use scooters (and dealt with at least 4 buses last time that were unable to load a scooter due to mechanical issues) I sympathise with the issues of wait times but once again it's just not possible (from a mechancial point of view with the current bus designs) to load scooter and the regular queue at the same time. Until then we will all just have to have a little more patience (and personally I'm always grateful that I can stand waiting and that my son and husband are as well) to worry about the issue aside from the concern it causes my family and friends with the need for these essential assistance.

[illini]

While I have been frustrated in the past after waiting an hour and having a person in a scooter show up at the last second and load the 20+ "family members" onto the bus while I continued to hold TWO sleeping children, in general I don't get upset about this.
Instead, I'll be grateful that I *can* stand and walk around the parks. I don't know who really does or does not need a scooter and it's not my place to make that determination. I'm happier if I just assume everyone on one needs one. People with handicaps certainly deserve courtesy and respect. While I may have to wait a bit longer for a bus, that pales in comparison to what people with mobility issues face on a daily basis.
I do understand why people are upset, but having special busses isn't going to fix the problem. It will just make life even more complicated and difficult for people requiring extra assistance.

[Imagineer1981]

Sounds like Wall-E where we all are in floating scooters...he he

this is why I rent a car everytime

[ChipDale2708]

When we went to WDW there were so many scooters and at different times when you see the group different people would be on the scooter. There was another the person was riding when they got on the bus and the person walked around fine just seemed to be a bit overweight (don't take that the wrong way I'm a big girl too) I just didn't see any signs the many times I saw her that anything was wrong. She walked fine around the hotel. I just feel it is being terribly abused. We drove to the parks a few days to avoid this problem.

I just want to give another side to this scenario - well three actually. Sometimes the person in the chair needs to get up and move around and can't sit for long periods of time. So someone in the party has to drive it to their next destination. As for walking 'fine' around the hotel, my Mom walks fine for short distances, but to walk around a Disney park is impossible for her. She can enjoy our family vacations thanks to the ECV's.

And my final twist on others riding the scooter - two trips ago we had a scooter for my Mom. On our first night, I twisted my foot and was in extreme pain for the rest of the trip. Rather than ruin the weekend, I taped the foot up and we traded off using the scooter instead of renting a second one. We also only rented in the parks so we didn't have one on the buses.

[MickeysEars]

i rememebr going to DL right afet the Indiana Jones ride opened. My uncle was in a wheel chair and THAT line was designed so that wheel chairs would go through almost the entire line only to be removed from the line right before boarding (it is like the line for Dino at AK, same load system) So I pose the question...whay cant they wait in line with everyone else for the busses. The front seats and elevated seats can be leaded first to leave the scooter seats open. I dont begrudge the use of the scooters or the need for them, I just get irked that I will wait a couple of cycles for a bus (because we all know the number of busses on the roads have been decreased) to have to then watch a scooter pull up and I miss THAT bus too.

[bkfree]

We just returned from our trip Dec 3-10. We commented several times over the huge number of scooters everywhere.
Since my FIL and my mother would also be scooter users at WDW, we are glad to see a place where it is easy to use them.

My only beef was the idea that they had the right of way to the exclusion and danger of others. I heard a Mom tell her daughter that was in a motorized wheelchair to just run over anyone that go in her way and about a minute later she ran into the side of another child in a wheelchair.

Then there was a scooter driver at Epcot that basically announced that she would run down anyone that got in her path.

It is this attitude and reckless "driving" of the scooters that I do have a beef with....

We had no problems at all with the buses (AKL) and only twice did we have scooter riders on the bus and each of them waited in line with their party and then loaded when it was their turn.
But I do not believe we ever had a bus that was filled and had to leave others waiting behind for the next bus. We had great bus service the whole trip.
In fact the only real waits we had was a couple of times for the Monorail. 10-15 minute wait at MK and at TTA

[Gator]

As for someone calling a scooter rider selfish for getting out of the scooter and sitting in a regular bus seat? It is pretty dangerous to have someone seated on the scooter while the bus is moving ... it would be very stupid for that person to stay seated on the scooter, unless they really don't care about their own safety.

First of all, it is safer for a rider to stay on the scooter. It has arms and a lapbelt and is far more secure than a slick, fiberglass seat. I saw 2 or 3 scooter drivers and wheelchair riders stay in their seat.

Second, if scooter riders who are not completely invalid (they can still walk small distances) get seated first, why not children who need strollers? They can't walk all day so they need a stroller. But I guarantee they don't get to board before everyone else. They don't have the government giving them special rights.

[CleveRocks]

First of all, it is safer for a rider to stay on the scooter. It has arms and a lapbelt and is far more secure than a slick, fiberglass seat. I saw 2 or 3 scooter drivers and wheelchair riders stay in their seat.

On what do you base that conclusion? Because disability (i.e., rehabilitation) experts and transportation providers agree that NOT riding in a moving vehicle on an ECV is the safer way to go, unless there is a danger to the person in dismounting if they need specific help that is unavailable at that time.

Second, if scooter riders who are not completely invalid (they can still walk small distances) get seated first, why not children who need strollers? They can't walk all day so they need a stroller. But I guarantee they don't get to board before everyone else. They don't have the government giving them special rights.

You seem to be taking a political and perhaps emotional viewpoint on this. Please try to look at it purely from a practical perspective ... not who is getting what or who deserves what or anything like that, just look at it purely as a matter of common-sense function. A stroller doesn't need to take up a specific defined space on the bus; it can be folded and can lie on the floor or perhaps stand up (while folded) and be held by a parent with one hand. A scooter can't be put on the floor or stood up next to someone. The scooter would be a horrible obstacle, whereas the stroller doesn't have to be.

Saying that disabled adults and small children should be treated identically because they both share the characteristic of "doesn't walk well" does not mean they have the same needs when it comes to transportation. Again, look at it the way I just explained and you'll at least understand where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree.

[PirateLover]

Everyone is missing one very important point. A scooter can't be loaded onto a partially-filled bus. .

As a former Disney bus driver (and without taking any sides here), I can offer an explanation why the scooters (we call them ECVs) and wheelchairs are loaded first. It can't be done while other passengers are boarding because:
A - the designated tiedown spots are near the rear doors, and movement of other passengers from the front of the bus to the back would block the aisle and create confusion while we were trying to load the wheelchair or ECV.

B - The fold down seats in the tie down area must be raised in order to position the wheelchair or ECV. Those seats may already be occupied if other passengers boarded first.

Thanks. I do understand why they need to be loaded on the bus before everyone else, but I just wish there was something that could prevent groups from just strolling up at last minute and cutting in front of a long line. My idea, which I didn't explain fully, would be that once the group representative will be able to board the next bus, the family could get on. I guess this enters into the realm of subjectivity and could cause arguments though. I guess there really isn't a better way to work it out with the current system.

And to illini, I agree that I am thankful to be able to stand in line. My issue is more with the large entourage that can sometimes accompany scooters. I have no issue with scooter boarding first, but when the 5 or 6 other family members get to board too, that's what I find a tad annoying.

[diz_girl]

I have come to the conclusion that the population going to Disney is aging. I know I am aging!

I was at WDW the first week of December, and what I noticed more than the amount of scooters was that most of those riding scooters were not old. There were A LOT of younger people on them. There was a surprising proliferation of scooters for the middle-aged at WDW.

Whenever I encountered someone in a scooter, I just stopped, smiled at them and let them go before me. Usually I was met with a grateful smile, as many people don't "see" them and walk in front of them even though they have the right of way. As a pp mentioned, you don't know why any one person is in a scooter.

My father has arthritic hips and spine, and on our final day in the parks, as we were walking up to the EPCOT entrance, he said that he "just can't do it anymore." Meaning that he just couldn't do another day of walking in the parks. He's 68 and actually plays doubles tennis twice a week, but a week walking around WDW was too much for him. So he rented a scooter around the parks and had a great time.

[CleveRocks]

Thanks. I do understand why they need to be loaded on the bus before everyone else, but I just wish there was something that could prevent groups from just strolling up at last minute and cutting in front of a long line. My idea, which I didn't explain fully, would be that once the group representative will be able to board the next bus, the family could get on. I guess this enters into the realm of subjectivity and could cause arguments though. I guess there really isn't a better way to work it out with the current system.

And to illini, I agree that I am thankful to be able to stand in line. My issue is more with the large entourage that can sometimes accompany scooters. I have no issue with scooter boarding first, but when the 5 or 6 other family members get to board too, that's what I find a tad annoying.

I understand exactly where you're coming from. [What's coming next ISN'T an argument, it's an explanation/idea] The problem would be: if the entourage waits in line until they would "naturally" be able to board the bus, then it's quite likely the scooter wouldn't be able to be loaded at that time because of the number of people already on that partially-filled bus. The only alternative would be to then have the entourage step aside and let the bus fill, and then be first in line for the NEXT bus to come. That way, the scooter user could get on an empty bus that his/her friends/family and he/she waited for.

So we as a society, or Disney as a company, are left with a choice: let someone with a disability board before everyone else, or make someone with a disability wait for everyone else to go first.

If there is no other way, and we are forced to choose one or the other, how many of us would actually say "You are disabled, you gotta wait 'til last" versus "Go ahead, it's all right" ???

[crazypoohbear]

I have no problem waiting for the scooters to load with thier families intact.
I thank God that I am able to walk onto the bus and I would not want to tell the families they must split up. Who are we to dictate thier lives to them. We have no idea what goes on in a disabled family or who does what task for the person.
As for the large number of scooters, maybe the disabled realized that they could go to disney and have a nice time and have their needs met without incident.
I was there in September with a scooter person and we did get on the bus and sit with Rose, we were all going together, we were on vaction together and we were going to stay with her.
As for the stroller issue, those aren't locked down, there are parents who don't watch the kid as it is I certainly don' twant runaway strollers with sleeping kids ramming into me on the bus.
I am happy that Disney makes the disabled feel important and special.
I can wait

[Goes4FastPass]

I try to be smart and fair and it's true, I've never been greatly delayed getting on a WDW bus while it accomodated a person with using an ECV.

This is a no win situation for the Disney Company. I assume they want to be fair and just... and they must comply with the ADA.

I'm thankful to be able to walk all day at a WDW park.

I'm sure there are people who misuse allowances made for people with disabilities. What I can't know is whether that's 1 person or a few or many, let alone who fits in which category.

I guess we can only trust Karma to work things out.

[Auroring Good Time]

I believe that some of this issue comes from the cost of renting the scooters in the park. Some people do not need a scooter full time however, the walk around the park is too much for them. It is much cheaper to rent a scooter from an outside company for a week than it is to rent them inside the park every day. If the cost of a scooter was cheaper in the park, this would alleviate some of the bus issues.

[Ian]

Here's the way I look at it ... Are some people probably abusing the scooters? Yes. I'm sure. Some people cut in line or steal your parade spot or smoke where they're not supposed to. These people are called "idiots" and they're everywhere. The scooter isn't a cause, it's a symptom.

I choose to believe that 95% of the people who are using scooters need them.

[joelkfla]

Some points that come up as I read thru the thread:

Scooters are loaded first for several reasons, primarily:

• Safety -- it's better not to have the scooter drivers banging into people and running over toes. (We don't mind when they bang into the wall of the bus. )
• Efficiency -- it's faster and easier to load and strap down a scooter when the area around the back door and tie-downs is clear of other guests.)
• Courtesy -- we prefer not to have to ask guests in the handicapped seats to move, once they have been seated, although ...

A driver is required to ask able-bodied guests in the designated handicapped seats to move if the seats are needed, even if the guests must stand, but guests should never be asked to leave the bus to make room for a late-arriving wheelchair.

Don't blame the driver if it seems to be taking too long to strap down a wheelchair or scooter. First, we are trained to take as long as it takes to get the job done safely and courteously. Second, it's not always easy reaching around to attach a strap between the scooter or chair and the wall of the bus. And third, many of the tie-down straps do not function properly, so it can be a challenge getting them attached with only 2 hands.

Don't hold your breath waiting for any solution that requires more manpower, or purchase and maintenance of more vehicles.

Drivers are required to suggest to scooter riders that they transfer to a regular seat. Guests are not supposed to remain on the scooter, unless they are unable to transfer. It's just not safe.

The lifts on the high-floor buses are a problem. WDW only purchases low-floor buses with ramps now, but it will likely be several years before all of the high-floor buses are retired.

[big blue and hairy]

Here's the way I look at it ... Are some people probably abusing the scooters? Yes. I'm sure. Some people cut in line or steal your parade spot or smoke where they're not supposed to. These people are called "idiots" and they're everywhere. The scooter isn't a cause, it's a symptom.

I choose to believe that 95% of the people who are using scooters need them.

Well put, I agree 100%