Fast Pass All Day if You Stay on Property

[Rhetoric2000]

I'm sure I'm not alone on this board in having a story similar to this:

- I went to all of the parks over the period of Christmas and New Year 2006/7 with a group of 8.

- This included SEVERAL days in which parks ran at capacity.

- With reasonable planning and a bit of nouse it was possible via the current marvellous FastPass system AND the use of common sense to visit any combination of park attractions in a day that we would have wanted.

- This ability to visit all/most of the attractions in a park was shared by every single guest that visited the park in those days.

- All the people who didn't take advantage of this and were stuck in long, long lines either A) Managed their time poorly B) Did no planning at all or C) Wished to use a single attraction to a premium extent, riding it over and over.

The day that it is not possible for somebody who plans well and uses common sense to enjoy a park in a single day (if that is all the "valuable time" one has) I would have little to no problem in subjecting FastPass to a surplus charge or OnProperty benefit. The case against it at the moment is neither some kind of anti-capitalist statement of equality, nor even about simply being fair; it is the fact that it is totally unnecessary from both a business point of view, and that of the guest.

Not even approaching necessary.

[mrsgaribaldi]

We go off season like 99% of the time so long lines are not a problem for us. I actually like waiting in some lines, it builds the excitement. If a line is to long, we just skip it.


Off topic, what does this mean?

1) People need to get out of the Beltway.

[MidnTPK]

Off topic, what does this mean?

It was a personal attack on myself, a resident of Washington, DC. It had northing to do with the subject of the discussion, but was a snipe at me meant to diminish my opinion.

"The Beltway" is the circular highway that surrounds Washington, DC. Rusty was using it to suggest that I was out-of-touch with regular people in the rest of the country.

[Mrs Bus Driver]

I’ve been a well paid professional that charged people by the hour for my services. And every minute I didn’t work, was money I didn’t earn. I had enough client business that I employed several people to work with me on the projects waiting to be completed. I didn’t earn X dollars every hour I spent at WDW….so I certainly do value my time both more and less than others. And I like minimizing the amount of time I have to spend away from work while still having a fantastic vacation.

Sorry you feel that way, may I suggest a touring plan to make the most of your time. I think one of the reasons so many people like Disney parks is the fairness. We all can do a little planning and use the fast passes or you can be footloose and fancy free and go with the flow. Please remember it's a vacation not a competition. Relax, have fun.

[lockedoutlogic]

any suggestion that disney should start tinkering with the fast past system and create different "tiers" of it is a recipe for disaster....

I know they're GOING to do it.....but other parks that have different pay levels of ride reservation systems seems more trouble than it's worth.....

and the impact on lines of the most popular atttractions in each park could create alot of head aches....especially with new E ticket type rides.....

I'm much more in favor of them increasing ticket prices across the board to cover the costs/ desired profits from the fast pass system than implementing pay as you go.....


but again...they are going to do it.....we all know it.

[Goes4FastPass]

Tiered FastPasses are inevitable. I don't like it but I know it will come.

I have a coworker who was asking me for advice (as the local Disney nut) about planning his family trip: "I want to stay where I can see the castle and I do not want to stand in lines I don't care how much extra it costs." He couldn't believe he couldn't pay extra for no lines.

There are already tiered availabilities at WDW. You can't buy Sunrise Safari even if you do the CRT thing and call at 7am 180 days out - you must be a AK concierge/club level guest. Does EMH decimate against non-resort guests? Have you ever walked by a soon to be opened attraction during a DVC member or AP preview period?

Want to "hop"? Pay extra. Unused days never expire? Pay extra. Unlimited FastPass? Pay extra. Can't you see how the progression really fits? "How come I can't hop?" "You didn't pay extra" "No Fee-air. I'm gonna pout."

The day is coming when people who pay more for their room at WDW will get treated differently in the theme parks. Disney is a publicly traded company. It's not Gepetto and Jimminy Cricket sitting around and discussing what's the nice thing to do. As soon as the bean counters at the Disney Company decide the revenue from people who want to pay more to wait less will exceed the losses from the bad feelings of those who don't want to pay, all of our discussion about should they or shouldn't they will become moot.

[Disneyatic]

I am going to be brave and post now....

Disney should be grateful for its customers. I'm sure they taught you that sometime during training. If you don't get that, maybe it's time to move on to another company. I bet the cable TV companies are looking for people with that attitude.

Yeah, that's what Walt wanted....things to stay the same...never make any changes to systems, shows, or rides that could be improved. Be happy with the status quo....don't make any effort to 'plus' things. That sounds just like what Walt dreamed.

End of sarcasm.

I don't think personal attacks are necessary, the poster wasn't talking about never making improvements, he was referring to enjoying the magic. I agree with SpaceMtn101's comment that people should be grateful to be able to be in WDW. Many people don't ever get the chance, so why worry about small details and lines when at least you are in line at WDW and not at the supermarket.

I also agree with you that Disney should in turn be grateful for their guests, but as has been stated many times, they are a business and if I don't go, someone else will.
They already offer many perks and pay-perk options for both on and off-site guests. The parks and hotels are already packed with the system how it is, so what is their motivation to change??

It just annoys me that people cant just be grateful to be at Disney. Some people go their whole lives without being able to go and wish that they could afford to go. I dont understand why everyone needs to be complaining about not getting to ride a ride or waiting in a line. i honestly hated when people take it out on the CMs when the line was too long because of 101s and park capacity.

I guess all im saying is be greatful to be part of the magic, dont complain about things, just be a part of walts vision and enjoy it .... because then it will be a muich more enjoyable expierence no mater how long the wait is.

I agree, too often we get caught up in the negative and forget to be happy or grateful for what we have. Like I said, if I have to wait in line, at least it's at Walt Disney World!

Personally, I am for making changes to the system. Right now, I think you take a gamble when you visit WDW. You have no idea how good or bad the lines will be when you visit. You can influence it a bit by the time of year and the minimal information we get about historical park crowds, but you have no way of knowing what your actual experience will be until you get there. And for people not willing to pull their kids out of school for a vacation to WDW, they have no choice but to go to WDW at the busiest times of the year.

Universal has created a solution to this by giving on-site hotel guests all-day express access. That's one way of giving people who book at certain hotels some degree of certainty of how long they'll be waiting in lines when they visit. But like other posters, I don't like the obviousness of the us-versus-them of that system.

So, in summary:

Your suggestion about structuring the system to try to direct crowd flow to certain parks at certain times/days is a good idea and definitely has merit.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like lines just as much as the next person and if I had a choice, I would choose walking straight on over waiting an hour. But really, can you expect to go to a major theme park and not wait in lines? I don't think it's practical.
Yes, Yes, at Universal you can buy the pass and not wait.....but there are still people who have to wait at some point and I don't think that a FastPass that you can purchase is a good idea. I hate the idea of having to pay for yet another "ticket".....
I think that lines are part of the package of a theme park vacation, with some planning you can still have a blast and just don't worry about the lines. The ride queues are awesome on most rides and can help make the waiting more enjoyable.

[BelleCiavo]

When I stay at Universal I've got to admit I really enjoy the Express Pass privilege. The Universal hotels are very reasonably priced for their class, they are expensive compared to Disney Value and Moderates, but not compared to the Deluxes which, as much as I greatly prefer Disney, I'm sorry to say they exceed.

[MidnTPK]

I don't think personal attacks are necessary

I’m sorry I’ve been a little testy at times on this thread…not sure why I’ve been in a funk this week, but I apologize and I’ll try to do better.

This was only on the context of this person being a CM. I was little harsh, but a CM should never downplay a customer’s concern, even on his/her free time her on Intercot. Remember, Walt’s attitude was “If you can dream it, you can do it”, so if a person can imagine changes that might make things better, the company, and its CMs should look into it.

But really, can you expect to go to a major theme park and not wait in lines?

Nowadays, the answer is yes.

As you point out, Universal Orlando has a solution
As do most Six Flags parks
As did Disneyland (The Original)
Disneyland Paris has special Fastpass perks for on-site hotel guests.
And so does Tokyo Disney

I think that lines are part of the package of a theme park vacation

I’m saying they don’t have to be.

I might be wrong, but I bet the ideas I’ve previously mentioned might improve everyone’s experience.

And I haven’t come up with these ideas out of thin air….I focused on operations when I got my MBA, and there’s tons of ways that WDW could better utilize its existing capacity.

[SpaceMtn101]

Mid i challenge you to work merge a or b at space mtn on Christmas day or 4th of july when park is at capacity ... there has been already a few 101s and the fastpass line is at least a 45 min wait and standby 2 hrs... and its either way too hot, way tooo cold, or rainy.

Yes i understand that you want more fastpasses but where would more fastpass get you in that situation ... the line for standby and fastpass will just get longer and longer if there were to give out more. OHRC for a ride like space is hard because its only 6 ppl to a train. Unless you have a good merge and grouper it dont matter how many fastpasses you have people are going to be complaining.

I also have to ask why do you feel that resort guess are the only ones who should get special privleges??? Why shouldnt people who buy annual passes??/ Universal has that you buy an annual pass you get after 4pm unlimited fastpass uses. What makes resort guess higher class????

Even CMs have to fastpass or wait in lines with everybody else and dont get special fastpasses either.

I guess maybe you should look at it from the other side and see how it feels to have to deal with the people who want to complain when fastpasses ran out after a few hrs and they want to threaten you from an inch of your life. Its not any easy on the other end either.

[Mrs Bus Driver]

As you point out, Universal Orlando has a solution
As do most Six Flags parks
As did Disneyland (The Original)
Disneyland Paris has special Fastpass perks for on-site hotel guests.
And so does Tokyo Disney

We went to six flags magic mountain one summer. Made the mistake of trying their so called fast pass. First of all I had to spend 45 minutes in line to buy them, found out that for $15 we got 4. There were 4 of us so we decided to save them for 1 special ride. Riddler's Revenge had a 2 1/2 hour wait, so we got in line. We moved right up to the loading building and waited an over an hour in excessive heat. No AC and little or no air movement. After waiting so long I didn't know it but my DD wasn't loaded properly. You feet are supposed to dangle her's were flat on the ground. She went around the entire coaster like that. Her feet were sore and we left shortly after that never to return. Just because it says fast pass doesn't mean it is. Just because they charge for it doesn't mean its worth it. Disney does a very good job of spreading people out and everyone can use so it I will keep coming back.
I will say that I have used the fast pass at Universal in Cali and while it was nice to have it wasn't necessary. Most days Universal in Cali isn't very crowded. Also at the time we bought annual passes for the cost of a 1 day pass online about $65 each so the $20 front of the line pass didn't seam like such a big expense.

[MidnTPK]

I guess maybe you should look at it from the other side and see how it feels to have to deal with the people who want to complain when fastpasses ran out after a few hrs and they want to threaten you from an inch of your life. Its not any easy on the other end either.

I have sympathy for you....I can hardly imagine what CMs have to go through some days. But I don't think you (as a CM) should be complaining about customers/guests here on a fan site....ever.

I also have to ask why do you feel that resort guess are the only ones who should get special privleges??? Why shouldnt people who buy annual passes??

I don't think I've ever said that resort guests are the only one who should get the benefit. Quite the contrary, I think I've insisted that everyone could be made better off.

And I don't claim to have the details of how the special cases, like APs, DVCs, and anybody else would be worked into the system. But I'm quite confident there's many ways to work it out.

Yes i understand that you want more fastpasses but where would more fastpass get you in that situation ... the line for standby and fastpass will just get longer and longer if there were to give out more. OHRC for a ride like space is hard because its only 6 ppl to a train. Unless you have a good merge and grouper it dont matter how many fastpasses you have people are going to be complaining.

Of course there will be operational hiccups. The suits will have to figure out how to handle that. But that's not a good enough reason not to try.

And I don't think you get what I'm suggesting about making changes. I'm not talking about just having the machines spit out more fastpasses. I'm talking about harnessing the power of computers and statistical models of human behavior, using fastpass incentives, and managing crowd flow at the entire resort (all 4 parks).

[Capt. Sparrow]

Here's some Ideas I have.

1) Reserve a minimum number of Fast Pass tickets for folks who, along with their park pass, put a room key into the fast pass machines.

2) Reserve specific hours of the day for distribution of Fast Pass tickets to only those who put a room key into the fast pass machines. (e.g. Only people who stay on property can get a Fast Pass ticket to a specific popular ride between 2-4PM...)

3) Run mid-day Fast Pass access to rides for those who can present their room keys - either scheduled or on an ad-hoc/spontaneous basis.

So, am I crazy to suggest such things?

What do you folks think?

Here is the problem that I have with this...

I always stay on the wdw property, BUT, I do not use my room key for my pass. Every year I buy a season pass bc my family and I usually visit a couple times within the year period and it pays itself off usually midway thru the 2nd trip. Also, with the amount of hotels Disney now operates, I still think that the fastpass lines would still be almost as bad as they are today (a clear example would be EMH).

[Goes4FastPass]

...
It just annoys me that people cant just be grateful to be at Disney...

I thought the Disney Company was supposed to be grateful that I choose to spend some of my vacation dollars at their Florida resort.

Disney did not create their FastPass system because, as Jimmy used to say at the end of each Mickey Mouse Club, "Why? Because we like you!" they did it because people when asked about visiting Walt Disney World complained of long lines to the point is was hurting potential sales.

Also, a guest who is standing in line isn't spending money so you walk to Kilamnjaro Safari and get a FastPass that says, "Come back in an hour" At this point you can't get to another attraction and back so what are you going to do while you wait? Gift shop? But no one wants to schlep that mug around all day. No Problem, they'll send it to your resort. Why? Because they are a business. and the additional sales created by package delivery justifies the cost of providing the service.

FastPass was, from it's conception to the present and into the future a matter of what's good for Disney's bottom line.

My niece dosn't think of Disney as a business. She's a child.

[SpaceMtn101]

but mid what you still are not getting is if you add MORE fastpasses it does not make the lines shorter. I used space as an example for a reason because on a busy day it will at least go down once and it backs everything up even if it is a simple cascade that is at least 20 min to 30 min of a down time ... if a evac its at least an hour or more. Adding fastpass just complicates and makes the lines longer for an attraction like that.

Yes I understand where you are coming from. I dont like lines either but when i am a guest there i have to wait like everyone else so i understand.

my point about looking at it from the opposite end is i wanted you to understand that sometimes even though we may not think something is fair or right or can be fixed yes but think about on a busy day how many times a cm gets yelled at for no fastpasses ... fastpass line being too long... or standby being too long.

That is why now during night EMH all the parks give out fastpasses so you can have a better oppertunity to ride the major attractions especially during peak times.

I do agree there could be a better system but until they do away with the dream fastpasses because they honestly give out ALOT of those in a day... there is no way you can add any to this system because both lines would just be unbearable.

[Disney_Barbie]

I strongly disagree w/ NJMAN66. I feel that disney's fast pass system is "practacly perfect in everyway" and that universal's has MANY MANY flaws.

[Disney_Barbie]

I have sympathy for you....I can hardly imagine what CMs have to go through some days. But I don't think you (as a CM) should be complaining about customers/guests here on a fan site....ever.

I don't see why not. I mean both we as loyal disney guests as well as CMs can recognize that there are some mean, rude people out there and some of which happen to go to disneyworld.
I don't think this CM was trying to complain about all guests. Just the rude threatening angry ones, I'm not a CM and I complain about those people, why can't the CM's complain about them also?

[FutureCorpsFan]

I like how Disney does business and they do try very hard to make it fair for all, you all gotta agree on that !!....

I have to agree.. I'm not sure Universal has it right. The concept of paying for exclusive access to attractions because park managment already recognizes their business model is to fill a theme park to capacity anyway seems a bit wrong to me.

The Disney model does seem fair as it is now, without loosing it's integrity. The EMH do provide the added benefit, even if it is limiting in some parks, but you have to admit they already are catering to their resort customers with transportation conveniences and other perks. Attractions were the primary focus in the past, but I think the reorst as a whole has much more to offer than just the attractions.

[MidnTPK]

but mid what you still are not getting is if you add MORE fastpasses it does not make the lines shorter.

When have I said MORE???? You ASSUMED more. What if the system steered people to different parks and lands and pre-scheduled their ride time the night before. And fewer passes were actually issued per attraction.

I'm talking about a change in the way people visit the parks at WDW, not just some tinkering with the current FP system. Fastpasses wouldn't be responding to the guests that arrive each day...they'd be influencing where they go and when they go each day.

And being incredulous at that idea is understandable...I'm not certain that my ideas are possible or practical. But just bashing them doesn't get anywhere.

[dnickels]

I really don't mean to sound like a jerk when I say this but....

I'd much rather spend my time at Disney with people who can relax and enjoy the magic/atmosphere, even if it includes some time spent in lines and talking with other people than someone who needs to optimize their ratio of rides ridden to money lost because they're not working.

I enjoy the system as it's set up now and of course it can be improved. I think one nice thing would be if Disney could provide guests with a breakdown of the current park capacities when you drive in (i.e. MK is 50% full, Epcot is 30% full, etc.) so that visitors would know which parks are less busy but as for the 'my time is more valuable than yours so I should be able to cut in line if I pay more' argument I'm glad that right now at Disney our time all has the same (roughly anyway) value.