Carousel of Progress to be replaced by 2009?

[lockedoutlogic]

It was another poster that said you could tear down buildings to expand. I simply stated there was a ride that had a big footprint that was replaced with a playground (which was supposed to be temporary). I would bet you could squeeze at least two atractions in the foot print left by 20K.

Actually if you look at the satelite photos on the internet, the foot print left by 20K is bigger than Mickey's toontown fair, and almost as big as Fantasyland. Also from the Satelite photo I can see tons of empty space just outside the traditional boundries of the park. Just need a little imagination to get guest over to it. I mean that's why going over a waterfall was incorporated into the original (DL version) POTC, the imagineers had to figure out how to the ride under the railroad tracks and outside the boundries of the park.

Oh...I'm not debating that they have in fact expanded in the past beyond the original plans.....

but given the huge amount of infrastructure that does rim the disney parks in florida...it is not realistic to think that they would devote the funds to do anything like this anytime soon

They are in the midst of a billion dollar rework of California Adventure (one that will most likely fail...in my opinion) and that is roughly the cost of a new themepark...it certainly exceeds what they spent to put that "park" there in the first place.

So while the extra space given back to the MK from the 20K lagoon site...the most we can hope for is a small expansion of fantasy land or maybe a new big ticket attraction (which has been in the rumor hopper for a longtime...Fire Mountain)....even the "green" space that you see behind the lagoon site is actually the firework fallout zone....which is basically a hazmat type site filled with parts of pyrotechnic shells....

Almost everything you see on a satellite shot has some function....don't forget that WDW was built on a swamp...and to build on a swamp you need retention ponds to deal with the diverting of the ground water....so many things that appear to be "undeveloped" are actually serving an extremely important function and are...in fact....already spoken for

But you seem to have a handle on it....so this isn't really a direct response for you...just an fyi to those who typically say "just expand"...it's just not that easy.

I would think that any addition to MK at this time will either be in the old 20K lagoon spot...or the carousel of progress....as they are the two most underutilized locations in the park as it now stands

[DisneyDD2]

well put, lockedoutlogic. i am impressed with your knowledge of disney park happenings.

[wdwfansince75]

First, CoP has always been a "must do". Most trips start with POTC, and end with CoP. (Usually after one last ride on SM). But frankly, on each last ride, I leave by saying "Fare well" to an old friend, not sure if we will meet again. I would be sad to see it go, but just as other dear friends to whom I wished "Fare Well", I will always have the memories. Just as with Horizons, I will get over it. And I visit sites like Walt Dated World to visit other old friends.

However, as with the Air Force B-52, most people who ride it are riding something older than themselves. Most of them would almost certainly enjoy what replaces it more than they do CoP. On my last few trips, I do CoP more for the nostalgia than for the thrill. It's almost like visiting friends in "The Home". Neither of us is what we once were. Perhaps it is time for something new.

I appreciate the arguement that support facilities occupy space that would be necessary for expansion. Sounds like it comes from the logies...but the cost of moving those facilities would be considered in any cost benefit analysis. Such "Best use" considerations are routinely used in renewal programs. Take a look at the implosions and new, best use construction all along the Las Vegas strip.

I will conceed that not all change is good. Few think that Stitch is better than any of its predecessors. But the design, and much of the infrastructure, is approaching 40. If they are not working considering a significant upgrade, or replacement, they are eventually just going to mothball it....and it sits in prime real estate.

How about this dream....Upgrade the ride infrastructure.....keep the first scene....then have dioramas of the family visiting MK over the years....perhaps one scene riding the Swan Boats, and one with Mr. Toad's wild ride....or watching the Main Street Electrical Parade....and close with the family back home, planning their next WDW trip......

[lockedoutlogic]

well put, lockedoutlogic. i am impressed with your knowledge of disney park happenings.

always been a hobby....but it didn't pay too well when i tried to "go pro"

[gresh00]

Disney should never close ANYTHING!! With as many visitors each and every year for the past 35 years, everyone's got some rides they miss. And if they do close CoP, it will just be another attraction to add to the list.

I know that having the newest and latest draws attendence, but part of the magic is the recalling your last trips over and over again in your head the week before you go again. It makes me so sad to do it anymore because of all the stuff that's gone from my childhood. With all the money us loyal them park fans have given them over the years, I think they have a duty to preserve some of these old rides, even though they might not get the crowds that they used to. They're Disney, how hard would it be for them to move any defunct ride into a Retroland style park? Like a graveyard for old rides - ONLY - they still work!

I would gladly pay double, triple the admission to get to go on rides like Dreamflight, world of Motion, Horizons, etc. . again.

[MinnieMommie]

Disney should never close ANYTHING!! With as many visitors each and every year for the past 35 years, everyone's got some rides they miss. And if they do close CoP, it will just be another attraction to add to the list.

I know that having the newest and latest draws attendence, but part of the magic is the recalling your last trips over and over again in your head the week before you go again. It makes me so sad to do it anymore because of all the stuff that's gone from my childhood. With all the money us loyal them park fans have given them over the years, I think they have a duty to preserve some of these old rides, even though they might not get the crowds that they used to. They're Disney, how hard would it be for them to move any defunct ride into a Retroland style park? Like a graveyard for old rides - ONLY - they still work!

I would gladly pay double, triple the admission to get to go on rides like Dreamflight, world of Motion, Horizons, etc. . again.

You just brought back one of my fondest memories...Dreamflight. I absolutely loved that attraction! Actually loved Horizons as well.

[WorldsFairEpcot]

I have heard rumors for years that a HUGE E-ticket attraction was going in at Tomorrowland' where COP is, and including the old skyway terminal, and the tomorrow land stage. It has been many moons since I have been over to the MK, so skyway terminal may no longer exsist, as well as tomorrowland stage. Help me out folks with that one. COP would fit nicely, and be right at home in Epcot. It could easily fit somewhere in the Innoventions buildings, either east, or west. It is indeed a classic, and deserves to be saved.

[DigitalDaredevil]

If the closed COP, what's next? I think it would really damper my interest in visiting as they are either removing or ruining great attractions with too much frequency.

[lockedoutlogic]

I have heard rumors for years that a HUGE E-ticket attraction was going in at Tomorrowland' where COP is, and including the old skyway terminal, and the tomorrow land stage. It has been many moons since I have been over to the MK, so skyway terminal may no longer exsist, as well as tomorrowland stage. Help me out folks with that one. COP would fit nicely, and be right at home in Epcot. It could easily fit somewhere in the Innoventions buildings, either east, or west. It is indeed a classic, and deserves to be saved.

Both the stage and the skyway stations (one in tommorrowland, one in fantasyland) are still there

the skyway stations are a sore spot for me...I can see them taking rides out for maintenance or appeal issues....but don't leave empty buildings.....that looks very budget

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

Let's move it to Future World to replace the Wonders of Life Pavillion. Because it could never draw the crowds that would justify the cost, though, there would need to be some innovative thinking involved. Since we're moving and updating it, add a few more scenes to cover the eras that are skipped between the 60's and 21st century.

It can be the pre-show for some new Epcot thrill ride. You get in the theater, see the progress of the American family over 100 years, and when you've made the full circle your in the line for some theme-related thrill ride.

Any suggestions on what thrill ride might tie in? Maybe a time machine ride to the future -- they could even use the Body Wars ride with a new movie.

Ok, where do I send my application to work at WDI?

[Coleby]

as of right now, I am going to put this on as I will believe it when I see it. Like others have said, we have been hearing this one for a long time. I think that is what originally brought me to intercot.
I like the idea of moving it, but, I don't agree that EPCOT is the deserving place, to me it just doesn't fit in. But thats my own opinion.
They need to update the ride of course, it has needed that for a long time. They did put a fresh coat of paint, and a new sign a few years ago.

Sadly, as much as I like this attraction, I don't see it sticking around much longer. but I do agree, do something with the skyway loading dock, I mean, the waterfall is great, but really??

[LudwigVonDrake]

I hope they keep Carousel of Progress. It's one of my favorites!

[Mackflava99]

It would be silly to remove it- we need to keep some legacy stuff around- and this one has way too much history and meaning- it was a fav of Walt-

Please don't remove it !!!

[Mickey91]

Disney should never close ANYTHING!! With as many visitors each and every year for the past 35 years, everyone's got some rides they miss. And if they do close CoP, it will just be another attraction to add to the list.

I know that having the newest and latest draws attendence, but part of the magic is the recalling your last trips over and over again in your head the week before you go again. It makes me so sad to do it anymore because of all the stuff that's gone from my childhood. With all the money us loyal them park fans have given them over the years, I think they have a duty to preserve some of these old rides, even though they might not get the crowds that they used to. They're Disney, how hard would it be for them to move any defunct ride into a Retroland style park? Like a graveyard for old rides - ONLY - they still work!

I would gladly pay double, triple the admission to get to go on rides like Dreamflight, world of Motion, Horizons, etc. . again.

I agree. And, these older attractions aren't hurting the attendance. 10 of Disney Theme parks are in the top 13 worldwide! How much more can you want???

[GothMickey]

I have heard rumors for years that a HUGE E-ticket attraction was going in at Tomorrowland' where COP is, and including the old skyway terminal, and the tomorrow land stage. It has been many moons since I have been over to the MK, so skyway terminal may no longer exsist, as well as tomorrowland stage. Help me out folks with that one. COP would fit nicely, and be right at home in Epcot. It could easily fit somewhere in the Innoventions buildings, either east, or west. It is indeed a classic, and deserves to be saved.

This rumor pops up every once in a while. Even though it hasn't happened, doesn't mean Disney didn't think about it. This is one I will file away as rumor until Disney announces something. However, why shouldn't Disney close rides and replace them? Some rides just don't stand the test of time. Popularity dies out, better ideas come along. If Disney didn't close and replace rides, then all we would have is a broken down museum. It would cost more to maintain 30 year old rides than to build new, state of the art attractions. And let's not forget about competition. Do you want Universal to have the best rides while Disney's rot? I don't think so.

[JPL]

Not saying this will never happen since CoP is a maintenance nightmare since all the parts have to be custom crafted. But I wouldn't put a date on it just yet and information from a few years back that really fueled this rumour had to do with an agreement reached about CoP being moved to the Smithsionian if and when it closes at WDW. There was even some concept art floating around of how it would be configured with a stationary stage and guest walking around from scene to scene. Add to that around the same time the attraction went seasonal and then on limited hours. This rumour pops up every time people thing Disney has hot ne under utilized property that could make for an interesting attraction ie. The Incredibles. It's basically people speculating on how Disney can utilize the Skyway area and Tomorrowland Theater which while the theater does not offer daily entertainment options for guest it is the only facility available for special events in the MK. I have noticed several choirs and dance groups performing at this location over the years as well as it being used during MVMCP.

[ccp1]

... It's basically people speculating on how Disney can utilize the Skyway area and Tomorrowland Theater which while the theater does not offer daily entertainment options for guest it is the only facility available for special events in the MK. I have noticed several choirs and dance groups performing at this location over the years as well as it being used during MVMCP.

The Disney's Magic Music Days program has really taken off over the past few years, and while it's true that it is a seasonal activity, during the months of February-May there are literally dozens of bands, choirs, and dance teams from across the country performing on WDW stages every day including the Tomorrowland Theater (for quite a nominal fee ).

Recently, Disney has created 2 additional school music festivals, Festival Disney, and The Disney Honors. While both of those festivals take place at various resorts (like the Saratoga Springs Performance Hall), directors try to add a Magic Music Days performance onto the trip, to give the kids the opportunity to actually perform in the parks.

My groups have performed with Magic Music Days 4 times over the last 10 years, and I can tell you that there is such a great demand for performance opportunities, there is actually a shortage of performance slots for groups that want to participate. That is why they have the seasonal temporary stage in Tomorrowland (near the SM entrance), as well as one in EPCOT (overlooking HISTA). Things look even tighter as work goes on at the ABC Theater at DHS.

Unless Disney replaces it with another temporary seasonal stage somewhere in MK, I don't see anything happening to the area of the Tomorrowland Theater.

[Jasper]

I've said it before and I will say it again; there is only one way to have any hope of keeping any attraction open and that is by having large numbers of people visiting it. So for anyone who loves CoP or any other attraction that is in danger of being closed, visit early and visit often, and bring your friends!!

Of course even that doesn't always keep attractions open if the maintenance costs become way out of line or if the technology becomes totally obsolete and is unable to be upgraded.

[GothMickey]

CCP1, Disney will be building an enclosed theater in Hollywood Studios for events such as this. Think of the old Hunchback theater. Now think of it as enclosed hosting these kind of events. Yep. That is what has been discussed as being in the pipeline. If Disney does go through with enclosing that theater, then there is no need for Galaxy Palace Theatre.

[ccp1]

CCP1, Disney will be building an enclosed theater in Hollywood Studios for events such as this. Think of the old Hunchback theater. Now think of it as enclosed hosting these kind of events. Yep. That is what has been discussed as being in the pipeline. If Disney does go through with enclosing that theater, then there is no need for Galaxy Palace Theatre.

That sounds like a great addition, but what I was getting at was that, on any given day during February-early June, there are usually at least 4-6 school groups performing at:

- Galaxy Palace Theater,
- Temporary Tomorrowland Stage,
- Cosmic Ray's Starlight Cafe Stage,
- Future World West Stage,
- Future World Fountain Main Stage,
- American Adventure Capital Dome area,
- Dock Stage at Downtown Disney,
- 2nd Stage at Downtown Disney,
- the ABC Theater,
- Performance Hall at Saratoga Springs,
- Recital Hall at Saratoga Springs,
- even the Motion Stage at Pleasure Island.

And, Disney seems to be promoting these school music performance opportunities more than ever. As a choral director that has had the "please, don't cut our performance time because you over-booked the Galaxy Palace that day and now you need to cut groups"-conversation with Magic Music Days staff, I think they are successfully growing a program that needs more stages, not less.

(Gosh, I feel like I just went on a tangent from the original topic. Sorry folks... I love CoP, and get there every visit.. ok, back on track!)