Feelings on the 2008 Dining Plan/Will You Purchase The Dining Plan in 2008? [Merged]

[faberj]

I waitress part time (in addition to my full time jub) and servers really do depend on thier tips as income. I live and work in WI and I make $3.50 an hour (I have been waitressing at the same place since high school, if I just started I would be making $2.30 an hour). Anyway, even when I give my best service to ALL my customers I still get stiffed! The worst offenders are the large groups with the big checks (we do not automatically add the tip to large groups, and the customers know this too). I have gotten stiffed to getting as little as 10% off of those. It burns me even more that I have to claim 12% percent of all my sales to the government!! I myself always tip at least 15% if not more. I know that some of the things that happen are not the servers fault (ie meal delays, food not how you wanted it, slower service if it is busy, etc). Anyway I know how it feels and this is just my 2 cents.

[January-2007]

**Moderator Note**

This thread is for sharing opinions on the changes for the 2008 Dining Plan changes only.

Seems like this thread is getting a little off topic....

[luvdiznee]

Like someone else had said it would have been nice if they gave you a choice of an appetizer or a desert. Then I may consider it. That way if there were 2 of you one could get the appy and the other the desert...maybe thats why there was no choice. Oh well. I can dream, can't I.

[SignguyTom]

The automatic 18% tip for large parties is industry standard, and has nothing to do with WDW or the DDP.

My previous comment about the automatic 18% tip was referring to the tip that was included as part of the current DDP. Going forward with the new DDP, the tip is not included and patrons will have to tip on their own. Which sounds like what you'd prefer anyway.

I realize adding a tip to large parties is an industry standard. My experience has been that a "large party" was 8 or more.

Actually, I am disappointed that Disney removed the tip from the dining plan. I always left an additional tip to cover things not covered on the plan (beer, etc..) during our trip in May '06. With the appetizer being removed as well as the tip, it amounts to about a 40% increase in price, plus it adds hassle. By this I mean I now have to figure how much of the tip is my responsibility and how much is my sister's during our TS meals next May (party of 6, plus 1 child). Guess I better take a calculator. I would have much rather seen a $10-15 price increase and keep the system the same. Maybe we will come up with our own system that will make it seem cool again.

Now, ignoring the debate over whether it is still cost-effective or not, my take is that it now just simply isn't as much fun. It used to be so great to go eat dinner, sign the slip, toss a couple bucks tip to cover a couple drinks and be on our way. Now we will need an accounting program to figure who ordered what appetizer, how much tip is owed by whom, etc... The magic is simply gone from this plan.

[irish1967]

My response to the 2008 Dining Plan changes was to send my dad (who always vacations with us) an e-mail with links to the plan details and the comment...

"We'll need to do some number crunching to determine if we want to do the Dining Plan when we go to WDW next summer."

Cost vs benefit is the bottom line from my point of view. Do the benefits (monetary and not) outweigh the cost (monetary and not?) Even during Free Dining, the Dining Plan may not be the best option for someone when the cost of the room at rack rates and typical eating habits are taken into account.

There are ALOT of food options available at WDW, the Dining Plan is only one of those options. Each group needs to find the appropriate options for themselves.

[DizneyRox]

I would have much rather seen a $10-15 price increase and keep the system the same.

That will be next year!

[SignguyTom]

That will be next year!

Yeah, probably....

[Clotho]

An aside:
While it is commonly believed that "tip" is an acronym for "to insure promptness", it is not true:

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp

"The word originates from the 16th century verb tip, which meant "to give unexpectedly", and was derived from the German word tippen, meaning "to tap." The modern German version would instead be Trinkgeld, literally meaning "Drink Gold", or "Money to Drink"[2][3] Modern German would instead be for "tap", Hahn, "to tap", Klopfen.
...
The word "tip" is often inaccurately claimed to be an acronym for terms such as "to insure prompt service", "to insure proper service", "to improve performance", and "to insure promptness". However, this etymology contradicts the Oxford English Dictionary[5] and is probably an example of a backronym ("a phrase that is constructed "after the fact" from a previously existing word or abbreviation")"

As for the comment about about the new system not being "as fun", I agree! The current plan essentially made WDW an all-inclusive resort kind of experience! When I go to an all-inclusive, I don't carry money around with me. I have cash to tip when I arrive and when I leave, for those handling my bags and cleaning my room. But being free of having to budget things out beyond that is an amazingly freeing experience. And the DDP was a taste of that for so many vacationers! And now they are taking that away.

And selfishly, I am a "salty" person, not a "sweet" person. So I concur that I would prefer the option between an appetizer OR a dessert. I am totally pushing for that! Think about diabetics or dieters who can't enjoy a big sweet dessert and would far prefer an appetizer salad or something! The versatility would go a long way in making it a better experience for sampling, as well--one in the party gets an appetizer, the other a dessert, nobody has too much food, but you get to sample a wider variety of what the restaurant has to offer. PERFECT!

RE: Tipping 18%
I heard it posted someplace that the reason the labor union was against the 18% tip included was because that was a VERY VERY misleading assertion. The servers were not in fact getting 18% on the bill total. And the tip policies were set by the individual restaurants, so it wasn't even consistent. One restaurant was rumored to give a flat $5 tip on ALL tables, regardless of what size the party or what was ordered. I have a hard time imagining it, but it's possible. The most the servers made, it was reported, was 18% on what the actual cost of the meal was, between the restaurant and Disney Corp. Meaning a $50 meal really only costs $10 to the Disney to create, and that is what the servers were being tipped on. This I can believe.

These are unconfirmed rumors, but it would make a lot of sense as to why the "servers" (labor union representing them anyway) would have wanted to change the system. They were in no way actually getting 18% off of every bill total as is implied. I wish we knew someone who worked in the Disney restaurants who could talk about this!

Additionally, it is interesting to me that people have complained all this time about the tip being included in the DDP somehow brought service expectations down and how awful that was. But now they are separating out the tip so you can give what you think is deserved and people are complaining about that! You can't have it both ways. Hopefully those who complained about the service will see it improve. Those who want to tip more or less will have control over it. But it is at the expense of an "all-inclusive experience", which I would personally prefer, but *shrug*

[mdricks]

Cant let this one go by without comment.....

The old business model was take a hit on profits and make it up in volume with a captive audience. The thought being that the perception of value would lead people to spend a little more on the plan and that the loss spread out over time would be offset by the increase in volume profit. Profit margins shrink quite a bit but 10$ profit on one person is not as good as 3$ profit from 4 people.

When I first saw the DDP I was amazed at the perception of value and was very skeptical. I spent a LONG time reviewing options and comparing situations and grudgingly came to the decision that the plan was a good value.

I then used it on a trip and found it was not only a good value, but was in fact a great value of about 35% savings for my family. And we were constantly not finishing everything we ordered because it was too much food. There was no conceivable short term business goal by Disney to justify it if the average family had the same experience. I constantly wondered how Disney could be making any profit as a result. Even if you totally blew off a few meals and wasted the credits you still came out ahead.

The new business model seems to be a design by which participants will only benefit through maximization of the plan. If you don't use everything to the fullest you will break even at best. Those of us who, for one reason or another, fail to maximize the plan benefits, equal profit margin increases. The focus shifts from how good the consumers deal will be to weather the consumer even gets a deal at all. If you have a high enough percentage of those people, then the number of participants in the plan becomes moot because the plan actually generates profit from unused resources instead of relying on volume.

Don’t get me wrong, the potential for the consumer to realize savings in this plan exists, however, there is a real cost to the consumer should they fail to realize that savings. And the resulting cost is a financial benefit to Disney for providing no service at all. And in a business profit for nothing at all is the best kind.

My guess is that the number of unused credits under the old plan was just to tempting a profit center to pass up. If you could figure out a way to give value to those people who maximize the program, while putting yourself in the position to get big windfalls from the small group that fails to maximize ……. Simply stated Disney will now make free money off of everyone who signs up but doesn’t take it for all its worth. And the small savings held by those that do maximize is still offset by volume and even more importantly by those that do not maximize. And the PR from those people who maximize and receive benefit will drive the program (for a while at least).

I guess people at Disney had the same thoughts I had. Now, for me, its a suckers bet. You absolutely have to plan out your meals to realize any savings. If I had a desire to go to Chef Mickey's, O'Hara's, and LeCellier then I'm with the plan. If I want Liberty Tree, Tony's and Shutters (ick!) then count me out.

My last trip we had an illness during our visit and lost out on 2 TS meals. We still saved a ton of money over standard pricing. Under the new plan, the waste of those 2 TS credits would mean the difference between a deal or taking a loss.

I am not going to lambaste the Disney company for stopping what was, in essence, a free ride. But I will not participate in the crapshoot left in its wake.

[Clotho]

Hrm...I am not sure I understand the logic.
If you don't use all your TS credits, you don't tip on those missed meals, anyway. So you don't lose any more money than you would if the tip were still included.

The loss of appetizer is uncool, but since most people wouldn't order two appetizers and two desserts at any given meal anyway, it was an inflated idea of "value"--sure if you ate that much at your meal, you are saving over what you would have normally spent. But you wouldn't normally have spent that much!

The real test for most people is to tally what they would ideally want to eat at a given restaurant. Not comparing it to what it would cost if you ordered all the items, but what you would order if you were paying out of pocket.

For instance, when I go, we usually share an appetizer, get individual entrees, and one dessert to share. So the DDP numbers were kind of inflated when we crunched the numbers assuming we would eat two appetizers and two desserts.

What it DID do is give us an opportunity to try some items we wouldn't normally have ordered. So for instance, while hubby likes calamari, I am not as big a fan, so we usually get a different appetizer. With the DDP in 2007 we could have gotten both! But we wouldn't do that normally...so part of the value in it for us was that flexibility without having to budget for extra food tallied in.

Am I making any sense?

For us, the new DDP plan would still be a savings. We eat TS meals nearly every night, and we like Good Food. So the price of the plan alone covers the cost of our TS meals, and we essentially get a CS and snack for "free". But for people who don't eat TS's as frequently, it may not make as much sense, old plan or new plan the same...

[GrumpyFan]

I can understand them tweaking and making some changes to it, but, what they're doing here is really going to make us, and I'm sure a lot of others re-evaluate whether or not it's worth the cost. I'm leaning heavily in the NOT direction. I think $37.99 is too much considering they've dropped appetizer and the tip. Under the proposed changes, I might be more inclined to purchase it again if it were around $35.99.

When DW and I have gone and used it by ourselves (just the two of us), often times having an appetizer and entree AND dessert was more food than we could handle. However, what Disney is doing with the plan doesn't make sense.
SUGGESTION: Why not change the plan so the guest can have an appetizer or dessert, but not both. This way, if there was a party of two, one could choose the appetizer, and the other could choose the dessert and they could share.

I will be interested to see how many people actually use it in 2008.

P.S. Epmhasis added just in case any Disney people happen to read this.

[Disneytravels]

Wow I had no idea it would cause such a can of worms when I posted this...lol!
I think I agree with some that it is still a bit of a savings.. they say that its a 32% saving now instead of the 40% saving it was in prior years.
I will also have to plan it out to see the saving each way- w/ddp or w/o ddp.
Disney claims the reason for the change is due to public poll they took, not the union of workers.
Many people felt they were treated differntly when they used the dining plan than those who paid cash for there's- in which I have felt this first hand. We were in a party that half was on the dining plan and the other half was not.. there was a difference. The sad thing is that we always tipped 25% so we were leaving a tip on top of that 18% that was included.
One thing that people are not thinking of - about "hiding" the money in tips is most people are using creditcards/debit cards to still pay for their meal in which is not able to be hidden.. so they get taxed on that...this is the reason we leave 25% because by the time taxes are out they may get 18% full.
I agree we will try to set aside tip money now and if we don't use it all we will have bonus money.
I have bookings for clients for the new year already and have only sold 1 dinng package- I normally sell 98% dining package. So this not only effect Disney servers it affects me as a travel agent too. I can't sell something that doesn't seem like a good deal anymore but I will still try. Now its going to be selling it on convience not value.

[SignguyTom]

Hrm...I am not sure I understand the logic.
If you don't use all your TS credits, you don't tip on those missed meals, anyway. So you don't lose any more money than you would if the tip were still included.

Right, but if you've already paid, say, $30 x 5 meals in tips and $20 x 5 in appetizers for a family of 4, then your overall value for your trip goes WAY down.



Since our return from WDW in May '06, I have been a huge proponent of the DDP to everyone I talk to about it - until now. Here's why: I rarely ordered dessert last time, but I really enjoy the appetizers. Offer me a choice between appetizer OR dessert, and I'll sing praises once again.


PS As above, emphasis added in case someone from Disney reads this...

[lockedoutlogic]

It was a good deal....now not so much....

to maximize the value of it...you basically have to go to the highest priced non 2 point TS credit location and order the most expensive entree on the menu...usually a steak.

That's great...but do you want 5-7 nights of Strips?

The point is that you now HAVE to go to the priciest of the cheaper sitdowns and order from right to left...as many...but not all...had already done with DDP.

If you squeeze the life of it....combined with the counter service....then accounting for the increase in tips and extra appetizers.....

Then you still might be ahead.

But that makes it far too much work....i think i might be done with her after November....

Back to DDE and more of a "what do i want"...not a "where is it a good deal" approach.

Not necessarily a bad thing....hopefully the reservations system will slide back towards normalcy also...

But make no mistake...part of the planning process had to be to "train" the customer into booking restaurants each day....an obvious long tern benefit once the people return to out of pocket payments.....

The golden goose had to end up someone's dinner at some point.....at WDW...it always does.....

[Goes4FastPass]

Isn't this what the Disney Company has been doing for years? - Increasing the price while decreasing the product.

I don't mind tipping - I do it every day - but this change is a price increase, plain and simple.

With the present DDP many families stopped to 'calculate' what was the best for them - OOP or DDP. The new plan might have more folks opting to spend less time eating mediocre food and more time enjoying the other things WDW has to offer.

Of couse WDW is also counting all the "I deserve the best - my cards aren't maxxed out yet" people to opt for the premium dining plan. Yikes can people go many days in a row eating 2 TS meals a day?

[Lillabelle00]

I don't believe that it will be a good value to us. If they wanted to drop the appetizer and tip..then they should have dropped the price more than one dollar. I think it should have been dropped by at least $4 or $5. I crunched some numbers, and my family would end up spending at least $100.00 more if we purchase the plan. It is disappointing. I was looking forward to using it.

[Crow]

my first use of it was in May and i used it for more than i would normally eat.
i have free dining (well paying rack rate at POP so its not actually free) and i will use the credits where i can wo
but I dont think i will use it next yr.
but i agree that the option of app or dessert would b ok. or
i ate at buffets, some CS and mayb 1 or a few TS wo the plan.
so IF i go back next yr i will do so wo the plan.

[thrillme]

I've never been a big fan of DDP. We like the Rainforrest and we go there and it's not on the DDP. I'm rather tired of all the difficulty surrounding ADR's. My DS and I never know exactly WHEN we're going to be hungry or where we're going to be (we're big time hoppers). I'm tired of everything being so booked up due to ADR's. Other than something "special" for a BIG group of 6 or more or a "special" event then it seems like this whole reservation system needs to come down to perhaps 48 hours advance notice.

The DDP was difficult...kids could only eat off of kids menus (which was often limited) so it wasn't uncommon that you'd have to fork out so they could have a better meal. It was often an all or nuthin' deal. Everybody in your room had to have it even if they were on special diets and planned to eat elsewhere. If you didn't use some of your credits because you weren't hungry or you didn't want a snack etc...well that was "wasted".

I'd rather them just come up with a Disney Dining Card that perhaps gives you 10-15% off of any meal at "participating" resturants and snack stands.

And tips...I'll be happy to tip appropriately but I admit to being somewhat less generous at buffets where I get up and get a plate, get my food have to stack a plate or two out of the way or take it to a nearby cart because it's never removed and periodically have to flag a waitress/waiter down to get a refill of water or tea.

I recall in the old days...my Grandfather would put a stack of quarters on the table and he'd tell the waiter/waitress that it was their tip. IF they took too long to refill a drink, bring napkins/condiments etc....he'd take a quarter from the stack. As time went on and they saw that stack getting lower and lower their service picked up quite a bit to save what was left.

[BronxTigger]

I've never done the DDP and don't plan to either.

However, I'm not surprised they have raised the overall cost of the DDP. I expect the restaurant prices to go up also.

The cost of food is going up, especially dairy products. At my local supermarket, you could get 16 slices of Kraft cheese for 1.99. No more...now its 4.89. Same with milk. It was under $3, now it is about $4.50 a gallon.

The DDP does not look like a good deal compared to the current restaurant prices. However, I'll bet the DDP will look like a better deal once they raise the prices at the restaurants.

[DizneyRox]

I've never done the DDP and don't plan to either.

However, I'm not surprised they have raised the overall cost of the DDP. I expect the restaurant prices to go up also.

The cost of food is going up, especially dairy products. At my local supermarket, you could get 16 slices of Kraft cheese for 1.99. No more...now its 4.89. Same with milk. It was under $3, now it is about $4.50 a gallon.

The DDP does not look like a good deal compared to the current restaurant prices. However, I'll bet the DDP will look like a better deal once they raise the prices at the restaurants.

True, I haven't seen anything about the price increases that will happen at the restaurants. It will happen though... It doesn't however change the fact that this is a price increase in itself. Once the restaurant prices hit for the new year we can better debate which is the better deal.