NEW THREAD STARTED, WITH SPOILERS. Harry Potter VII [Merged Threads]

[alphamommy]

From JKR official site:
The last part of the prophecy ('neither can live while the other survives') means that Harry and Neville will have to kill each other?


Inventive and intriguing, but wrong. See the answer to the poll question for a little more elucidation on Neville's relation to the prophecy.

What poll question? I think I missed something...

[conorsmom2000]

What poll question? I think I missed something...

From JK Rowlings site, the Neville poll question -

What is the significance of Neville being the other boy to whom the prophecy might have referred?

Finally, I am answering the poll question! I am sorry it has taken so long, but let me start by saying how glad I am that this was the question that received the most votes, because this was the one that I most wanted to answer. Some of you might not like what I am going to say – but I'll address that issue at the end of my response!

To recap: Neville was born on the 30th of July, the day before Harry, so he too was born 'as the seventh month dies'. His parents, who were both famous Aurors, had 'thrice defied' Voldemort, just as Lily and James had. Voldemort was therefore presented with the choice of two baby boys to whom the prophecy might apply. However, he did not entirely realise what the implications of attacking them might be, because he had not heard the entire prophecy. As Dumbledore says:

'He [the eavesdropper] only heard the beginning, the part foretelling the birth of a boy in July to parents who had thrice defied Voldemort. Consequently, he could not warn his master that to attack you would be to risk transferring power to you.'

In effect, the prophecy gave Voldemort the choice of two candidates for his possible nemesis. In choosing which boy to murder, he was also (without realising it) choosing which boy to anoint as the Chosen One – to give him tools no other wizard possessed – the scar and the ability it conferred, a magical window into Voldemort's mind.

So what would have happened if Voldemort had decided that the pure-blood, not the half-blood, was the bigger threat? What would have happened if he had attacked Neville instead? Harry wonders this during the course of 'Half-Blood Prince' and concludes, rightly, that the answer hinges on whether or not one of Neville's parents would have been able, or prepared, to die for their son in the way that Lily died for Harry. If they hadn't, Neville would have been killed outright. Had Frank or Alice thrown themselves in front of Neville, however, the killing curse would have rebounded just as it did in Harry's case, and Neville would have been the one who survived with the lightning scar. What would this have meant? Would a Neville bearing the lightning scar have been as successful at evading Voldemort as Harry has been? Would Neville have had the qualities that have enabled Harry to remain strong and sane throughout all of his many ordeals? Although Dumbledore does not say as much, he does not believe so: he believes Voldemort did indeed choose the boy most likely to be able to topple him, for Harry's survival has not depended wholly or even mainly upon his scar.

So where does this leave Neville, the boy who was so nearly King? Well, it does not give him either hidden powers or a mysterious destiny. He remains a 'normal' wizarding boy, albeit one with a past, in its way, as tragic as Harry's. As you saw in 'Order of the Phoenix,' however, Neville is not without his own latent strengths. It remains to be seen how he will feel if he ever finds out how close he came to being the Chosen One.

Some of you, who have been convinced that the prophecy marked Neville, in some mystical fashion, for a fate intertwined with Harry's, may find this answer rather dull. Yet I was making what I felt was a significant point about Harry and Voldemort, and about prophecies themselves, in showing Neville as the also-ran. If neither boy was 'pre-ordained' before Voldemort's attack to become his possible vanquisher, then the prophecy (like the one the witches make to Macbeth, if anyone has read the play of the same name) becomes the catalyst for a situation that would never have occurred if it had not been made. Harry is propelled into a terrifying position he might never have sought, while Neville remains the tantalising 'might-have-been'. Destiny is a name often given in retrospect to choices that had dramatic consequences.

Of course, none of this should be taken to mean that Neville does not have a significant part to play in the last two novels, or the fight against Voldemort. As for the prophecy itself, it remains ambiguous, not only to readers, but to my characters. Prophecies (think of Nostradamus!) are usually open to many different interpretations. That is both their strength and their weakness.

[alphamommy]

From JK Rowlings site, the Neville poll question -

What is the significance of Neville being the other boy to whom the prophecy might have referred?
<big snip>
[/I]

Thanks!!

[ncscgirl2005]

[QUOTE=conorsmom2000;1353956]From JK Rowlings site, the Neville poll question -
<snip>
Would Neville have had the qualities that have enabled Harry to remain strong and sane throughout all of his many ordeals?

<snip>

Ummm...this probably doesn't need an answer but I have one to give anyway.

Absolutely not. Harry's placement with the Dursleys was not by accident. It was well thought out and calculated by DD. As cruel as this may sound, Harry needed that in order to survive this ordeal and DD knew that ahead of time. Dealing with the Dursleys is nothing compared to what Harry is going through (or will go through) with LV. DD put Harry there not only because they were the surviving relatives but because Harry needed strength and that he has! Neville on the other hand still had his grandmother to care for him and look what she has turned him into. Sorry for that (I really do love Neville) but I had to get my point across.

[PirateLover]

Although I have read the books many times, own all the movies, and sift through forums occasionally I am by no means an expert and I've rarely come up with a theory that wasn't spurred on by someone else's. However, I've noticed that no one has commented so far on the title of the book. Deathly Hallows? What a foreboding title first of all. I've been giving it a lot of thought, doing a lot of reading etc and here is what I think is a likely theory. I will tag it in the unlikely event that I am correct:

Deathly Hallows is what lies beyond the veil. It is where the deceased witches and wizards go after death. So it is of my opinion that even if every major character were to die, the ending could still be a happy one because they will all be together again in the Deathly Hallows.

[TooGoofy]

My thought was that Deathly Hallows referred to the horcruxes.

[PirateLover]

My thought was that Deathly Hallows referred to the horcruxes.

Of course there are a number of things it could be, and none of us will know until we read the book (oh so close!) but would you care to further explain why you think that? I actually kind of hope my theory is wrong because of course I want them all to survive etc.

[pshokie]

PSHokie...I'm loving you right about now!

Thanks, but I am married.

Sorry I have been away for a few days, but I find it hard to post on the weekends, with kids running around. And I had to go see OOTP on Friday, go figure....

Anyhoo, by now, most of you know that I keep coming perilously close to violating the terms of service for this site. Not that I want to do anything against the policies of Intercot ( I love this site ), but because I, like those who are still reading this thread, am a potter-phile. I see a cool thread from another stie, and I want to share it with others.

Nothing against the originating site (by now you now it is Mugglenet), and nothing against Intercot.

I am simply torn between two lovers....come on join in!

Besides Mods, we only have 4 days 13 hours and 20 minutes to go to go !!! So how about a little love?

Along that line, I would like to post a link. Mostly to spare this thread from the reposting of a very long editorial. This editorial was written by a person who goes by the name "Lady Lupin". She is hands down the best editorial writer I have come across in all of my trolling for Harry Potter thoeries. She has an entire editorial section on Mugglenet just for her works called "Spinners End".

She has made my draw drop on more than one occasion with the seemingly off-the-wall thoeries she supports, including the "Vanquish" one I have yet to elaborate on. All her idea, and I simply LOVE IT!!!! (For those of you who will read it, it has to do with her "breeding" commment).

Anyway, here is what appears to be her penultimate editorial. She will write one more after the book is released, and then she is done. But, if you like looking for crazy theories , then sit back and behold her bold predictions for what is to come from this final chapter. Actually, it is more of a summary of all that she has posted to date. Collected and presented one last time, before Deathly Hallows is released.

But beware, this is major speculation. Spoiler warnings are in effect. You have been warned.

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/...end/se25.shtml

Again, my apologies to the Mods of this board, I do not meen to violate terms of service, and I have nothing to "gain" by posting this link.

Maybe Jen could provide some covering fire....

[conorsmom2000]

Although I have read the books many times, own all the movies, and sift through forums occasionally I am by no means an expert and I've rarely come up with a theory that wasn't spurred on by someone else's. However, I've noticed that no one has commented so far on the title of the book. Deathly Hallows? What a foreboding title first of all. I've been giving it a lot of thought, doing a lot of reading etc and here is what I think is a likely theory. I will tag it in the unlikely event that I am correct:

I do agree that the title refers to the Horcrux's, as they fit the definition of Hallow -

1. To make or set apart as holy.
2. To respect or honor greatly; revere.

And obviously, that's how LV would view his horcrux's.....but, the rest I'm going to put into spoiler font....

While I have read theories similar to yours, and have seen the definition of All Hallow's Eve as this "("holy" or "holy night") the Oct. 31 Greater Sabbat, also called November Eve, the Celtic Samhain ("sow-en"); the beginning of the Celtic winter, and of the Celtic year; the beginning of the Witches' Year, when the Veil Between the Worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to Earth; the Descent of the Goddess to the Underworld; the final Harvest festival"

and think that the reference to the veil means something, I don't know exactly how or why. I'm not leaning towards all the major characters dying, though...

[pshokie]

Okay Jen (conorsmom2000), this is now officially weird. Do you read the same stuff I do????

Not that I mind, but it is a little weird seeing quotes from things I have read also. Getting a lot of d&#233;j&#224; vu.

[conorsmom2000]

Okay Jen (conorsmom2000), this is now officially weird. Do you read the same stuff I do????

Not that I mind, but it is a little wierd seeing quotes from things I have also read also. Getting a lot of d&#233;j&#224; vu.

LOL!! I actually read that last quote on a different website but I googled it to check its validity and it seems to have popped up on every HP site there is - so, you've definitely read it before!

I'm off to read Lady Lupin's stuff now - and I totally forgot to comment on the Snape essay, which I will also get to....

[PirateLover]

The only thing that leads me away from thinking that Deathly Hallows is a direct reference to the search for Horcruxes is because of this quote from an interview:

When asked "What does 'Deathly Hallows' mean?" J.K. Rowling responded, "Any clarification of the meaning of 'Hallows' would give away too much of the story .

Well we already know that Harry is in search of Horcruxes... so I'm thinking it is something else, like a place. Like Godric's Hollow... although I've just now realized that they have that slight spelling difference. Ay. OK forget it, I'm out of the predicting game, lol. I'll just keep reading what you guys put out there. With my student teaching last semester I've fallen way behind on my potter geekdom.

[ncscgirl2005]

Thanks, but I am married.

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/...end/se25.shtml

Hey so am I! Sorry for coming on too strong!

Thanks for the link. That was most informative. I can't wait for this weekend to arrive.

[pshokie]

Hey so am I! Sorry for coming on too strong!

Thanks for the link. That was most informative. I can't wait for this weekend to arrive.

I'm off to read Lady Lupin's stuff now - and I totally forgot to comment on the Snape essay, which I will also get to....

ncscgirl2005 - sorry, just couldn't resist!

And you guys may want to spend some time scanning her older editorials where she goes into much more detail. I bet atleast one of you will be converted when you finish the "breeding" one. Very illumintaing. And just in case you finish those, under "World Famous Edtorials" individual contributors can have there "solo" editorials posted. For the record, I tend to shy away from the ones that delve too deeply into literary devices and comparision (ex. Harry Potter and how it relates to: Dante's Inferno, the Charkas (?), Egyptian Hyrogliphics, etc.)

I IS A COLUJ GRAJEET!!!

That means I do not have to take any more tests. Those things made my head hurt. I stuck with the ones that deal with the ins&outs of the Harry Potter novels only.

I agree that Harry's eyes are important including the color green. Green is used many times even w/ the AK curse. I think someone will look into his eyes and see his mother and maybe turn on LV. (maybe Pettigrew, wasn't it mentioned that they thought he had a crush on Lilly?) I still think that love has a great role in the books, from his mother saving him the first time.

Going to spoiler-font (more on my crazy theory....) [highlight to read]

Now this is completely insane! Harry has an inverted Horcrux.

A what????

Well, it goes like this, as conorsmom2000 already pointed out, no one knows how the Horcrux spell works or what is required. So lets all agree, for the sake of this theory, that something went horribly wrong and Harry (or rather his scar) is now a horcrux. Well, how many souls are in Harry?

Two, one being "Harry's" the other LV's soul fragment that is lodged in the scar.

But how about those eyes???????? Green, just like his mothers. In fact, he has his mother's eyes. Is this a literal clue JKR is throwing us? We have been beaten over the head with this one since book one. Could it be that obvious? Could Harry have:

• His own Soul?
• An LV Horcrux in his scar?
• A Lilly Horcrux in his eyes?

Remember, something went badly wrong, and we have no details. Could it be that Lilly's newly departed soul was consumed by the Horcrux spell, and placed inside harry and that is what protected him?

And if you think I am crazy, look at the cover of Deathly Hallows. Here is where the power of suggestion lies......

Can you find his scar?
What color are his eyes?
At this point, I would just like someone to slap me.

Also, as far as the AK is concerned, here is a trick of JKR.....
Please list for me the people/creatures that have been hit with the AK that we have actually seen die. Be careful. These are not the ones who have been hit with the AK, but those we have seen hit with AK and die.

Example, Barty Crouch was hit with AK, we did not see it. Frank Bryce was hit with AK, we saw "the light" only. I can only think of 4 we have seen a complete AK on: (1) Spider-bug-creature-thing from GOF when Moody was doing the unforgiveable curses, (2) Cedric, (3) the fox that Bellatrix kills at spinners end, and (4) Dumbledore. I need to go re-read these, to see if any "blasting/movement" occurred...

UPDATE: I went back and checked. We have seen only 1 person die from AK, Dumbledore. Now please hold to those pitchforks for a moment. This is important. From GOF, pgs 637&638:

And then, without warning, Harry's scar exploded with pain. It was agony such as he had never felt in all his life; his wand slipped from his fingers as he put his hands over his face; his knees buckled; he was on the ground and he could see nothing at all; his head was about to split open.

From far away, above his head, he heard a high, cold voice say, "Kill the Spare."

A swiching noise and a second voice, which screeched the words into the night: "Avada Kedavra!"

A blast of green light blazed through Hary's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to the ground beside him; the pain in his scar reached a pitch that he retched, and then it deminished; terrified of what he was about to see, he opened his stinging eyes.

Cedric was laying spread-eagled on the ground beside him. He was dead.

So sorry to say it, but the "AK would not 'blast' Dumbledore off of the tower" arguement is moot. He is the only person we have seen the complete AK on. We/Harry never actually saw Cedric murdered.

Uh-oh......there goes the Dumbledore is alive theory.

Just don't get me started on Thestrals.....

[conorsmom2000]

I'll be back later to post responses to the essay's and various new theories - I just wanted to post a....

WARNING!!!

There are already potential leaks out on the net (Scholastic is going after them so they must be valid) so be very careful when online, if you don't want to see spoilers! Most HP fan sites are in semi "lock down" modes to prevent any spoilers from being posted - but, you could stumble across this stuff anywhere else, so you just be careful!! Constant vigilance!! ( Sorry - I just had to.... )

[DisneyDog]

Ohmigosh! I am a librarian, and the new Harry Potter books have just arrived in the library. They are sitting right behind me!! I want to open the box soooo badly, but I'm not even supposed to open up the box yet. How am I going to resist??!!!! Help!!!

[pshokie]

DO NOT OPEN THEM!!!!

Sorry, but please do not open them.

If it helps, look at the worst case scenario. If you read them, you will want to talk about them. If you talk about them, however careful you may be, some one, specifcally a child, may overhear you and you will ruin this moment for them for the rest of their lives.

Think I am kidding?

I am a hockey fan. I still get angry when I think about the 80 olympics. The game was shown on tape delay and went to commercial in the last 10 minutes of the game (gotta make $$$$). Our local ABC in Washington DC affiliate (Rene Pusant - spelling?) broke in with a news promo and said "US Hockey team defeats the Russians. Film at 11".

GAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Yes, I still hold a grudge. So please, for other, especially kids, do not open them.

[pshokie]

Following that, I will probably post for the last time this afternoon. After that, I am walking away from any and all HP threads and sites until after I finish the book. Books have been delivered, so now it is up to the individual stores/librarians and their "cricket" (sorry after all, this is Intercot)!

CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!

[DisneyDog]

Oh, believe me, I wouldn't dream of it...it would be wrong, and unethical, and I would never ever want to spoil something like that for anyone... but it's sooo frustrating having them right behind me. I look at those boxes and my heart starts beating faster. It's like having the Hope Diamond next to me.

[Toughbug]

There is a Headline on MuggleNet that some website has realeased some of the First chapter of Deathly Hallows. It is highlt unlikly that it is true, but it's possiable. There are mistakes but it could have been the person typing it in.