PUSH's MK days coming to an end?

[DizneyRox]

...
Disney would say little about the development Monday. The company declined to directly answer when asked how it could say last week that there was "nothing to" the rumors that PUSH might be removed even though the contract was about to lapse, other than to say there had been "additional communication."
...

It's true, business is business...

And goes to show you that you can't really trust anything a business says; it will ALWAYS boil down to money...

[joonyer]

It's not surprising to me that they would think of dropping PUSH. This is one of those little things at WDW that adds to guests enjoyment once they are there, and is part of the "magic" that helped make the Disney parks different from the run-of-the-mill amusement parks.

But, it doesn't generate any direct revenue for Disney; I doubt there are any customers who decide to purchase park tickets just so they can see PUSH. That makes it an easy target for the bean counters. "Let's see, It costs us money, but doesn't generate any revenue. It might contribute to our guest enjoyment of the parks, but we can't measure that with dollars spent. So, let's "can" it".

[Quadstriker]

So, let's "can" it".[/I]

Wah wah wah!

You're right though.

[BrerGnat]

I have never seen Push. In all the visits in all the years. Never. So, this news affects me not.

[Melanie]

I have never seen Push. In all the visits in all the years. Never. So, this news affects me not.

They even had PUSH at DCA, in the SF Street area, just as you came into the Grizzly Peak area. Haven't seen him there in years though.

[BrerGnat]

They even had PUSH at DCA, in the SF Street area, just as you came into the Grizzly Peak area. Haven't seen him there in years though.

Really? That's news to me.

[yankeesfan123]

Just curious about the "contract" issue...

Is it the "handler" who has the contract and did not renew?

Or, is it actually Push, the physical property, who was under a contract? ie Push is an outside, independent contractor like 4 For a Dollar. So, they can just take the Future World themed/decorated trash can out onto International Drive to drum up tips?


It seems like the latter, based on the fact that they don't just replace the "handler". However, it seems from what I read that they kept the physical trash can and just put it in storage, so that makes it seem like the "handler" was under contract and the physical property is Disney-owned.

But it seems weird that other, similar entertainment using the same/similar technology, like Wes Palm, or even Mr. Potato Head, can still exist on Disney property.

[Polynesian Dweller]

Just curious about the "contract" issue...

Is it the "handler" who has the contract and did not renew?

Or, is it actually Push, the physical property, who was under a contract? ie Push is an outside, independent contractor like 4 For a Dollar. So, they can just take the Future World themed/decorated trash can out onto International Drive to drum up tips?


It seems like the latter, based on the fact that they don't just replace the "handler". However, it seems from what I read that they kept the physical trash can and just put it in storage, so that makes it seem like the "handler" was under contract and the physical property is Disney-owned.

But it seems weird that other, similar entertainment using the same/similar technology, like Wes Palm, or even Mr. Potato Head, can still exist on Disney property.

Push is actually not Disney owned but rather owned by Real Simple Ideas LLC of Orlando. This is a dispute over unspecified intellectual property rights language inserted in the contract by Disney. That is if RSI is to be believed. However, in any contract negotiations the truth is usually somewhere in the middle of what both companies say.

[Polynesian Dweller]

It's not surprising to me that they would think of dropping PUSH. This is one of those little things at WDW that adds to guests enjoyment once they are there, and is part of the "magic" that helped make the Disney parks different from the run-of-the-mill amusement parks.

But, it doesn't generate any direct revenue for Disney; I doubt there are any customers who decide to purchase park tickets just so they can see PUSH. That makes it an easy target for the bean counters. "Let's see, It costs us money, but doesn't generate any revenue. It might contribute to our guest enjoyment of the parks, but we can't measure that with dollars spent. So, let's "can" it".

Except it isn't about that. This is a contract dispute between Disney and PUSH's owners Real Simple Ideas. They were negotiating so Disney did have an interest to keep it if a contract could be reached. And if reports in the Orlando Sentinel can be believed the dispute is over intellectual rights not revenue. This may be settled yet scuds the language being used on both sides sounds like the kind of stuff used as leverage in negotiations.

[rjmdds]

It's not surprising to me that they would think of dropping PUSH. This is one of those little things at WDW that adds to guests enjoyment once they are there, and is part of the "magic" that helped make the Disney parks different from the run-of-the-mill amusement parks.

But, it doesn't generate any direct revenue for Disney; I doubt there are any customers who decide to purchase park tickets just so they can see PUSH. That makes it an easy target for the bean counters. "Let's see, It costs us money, but doesn't generate any revenue. It might contribute to our guest enjoyment of the parks, but we can't measure that with dollars spent. So, let's "can" it".

I agree and understand what your saying, but you could also make that case for many other things in the parks, namely the characters, the street performers, etc. . It is, however, the cumulative effect that these "high-cost-no-return" elements have that make people want to return. It is what separates Disney from every other entertainment experience in the world. There will come a point where if you adhere to that philosophy too many times, you risk becoming ordinary. And THAT would be the worst thing that could happen to Disney Theme Parks.

[joonyer]

. . . . There will come a point where if you adhere to that philosophy too many times, you risk becoming ordinary. And THAT would be the worst thing that could happen to Disney Theme Parks.

Yep. The question is, has TDO already started down that slippery slope? It's too easy for them to think, "Oh, Guests won't miss this one little thing", and then a year later, "Oh here's one more little thing nobody will really miss that will save us a few more $$", and so forth and so on . . . until.
I sure hope that's not going to be the case.

[Tekneek]

At $100 per person for 1 day ticket into MK, it makes complete sense that PUSH had to be laid off. They'd have to charge $200 a person to keep a talking trash can in Tomorrowland. These are difficult days for Disney. A billion dollars in profit doesn't buy what it used to.

Based on what I know of these things (admittedly not much), Disney was probably trying to put the little guy (Real Simple Ideas) over a barrel. They didn't agree to let Disney do that to them, so Disney pulled the plug.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Yep. The question is, has TDO already started down that slippery slope? It's too easy for them to think, "Oh, Guests won't miss this one little thing", and then a year later, "Oh here's one more little thing nobody will really miss that will save us a few more $$", and so forth and so on . . . until.
I sure hope that's not going to be the case.

TDO started down that slippery slope 10 to 15 years ago... And reversing course will be too hard... When you are beholden to Wall Street and shareholders, reversing course can be a huge challenge...

Several things have to happen...

1) Management change: This doesn't guarantee a change of course though... Things could always get worse... Everyone (including me) thought Iger would save the company... He did in some ways, but the parks have declined under him... He isn't a creative.. He is a numbers guy... Numbers are good... Profits are skyrocketing.. But imagination and creativity has died under Iger... And, also, it would be hard to change management in TDO when profits continue to soar... The bottom line, the numbers... That is all Iger is concerned about... he doesn't care (nor does Wall Street) how they get there.. As long as they get there... And they are getting there by cutting this, that and the other, while jacking prices on EVERYTHING...

2) Attendance decline: This hasn't been happening, not with the theme parks anyway... Hotel occupancy rates are another story... 79% is not good no matter how they try to spin it.. and I also question that 79% number, when a lot of people are reporting moderate and deluxe resorts are virtual ghost towns... Maybe the values are propping that number up, but doubtful... But, back to attendance at the theme parks... As long as attendance is not declining (by huge margins), management sees no reason to invest in the parks... Well, invest in anything new anyway... Their attitude is "people are coming anyway, so why bother?"... Sad thing is, Disney is resting on their laurels and seem to be okay with riding the Potter coattails....

3) Burbank forces their hand: Has happened before, and will be happening again... TDO did not want the Star Tours update... And then they didn't want the full refurb... Burbank told them too bad... The Fantasyland Land Reclamation Project was forced down their throats too... And we can see how they mucked that up as well... Cloning a ride with horrible show scenes, a disjointed story, a better queue than ride, and one good AA (Ursala)... TDO wanted nothing but meet and greets... ho hum fan reaction got the 7D ride added in... And what did we get? A land full of style, no substance... The land was meant to help capacity issues... it didn't... MK needs more...

[Strmchsr]

Sad thing is, Disney is resting on their laurels and seem to be okay with riding the Potter coattails....

While that certainly has been true, after spending a few days with several of the higher up suits from TDO the last week of January, I don't think that's the case now. I had quite a few words with them about this. Honestly, I think they're in panic mode because the old management did just sit back and rest on their laurels and now all the hype and excitement is going to Universal while Disney is just coasting on brand name. They are making real efforts to turn this around but the debacle of FP+ and the lukewarm reaction to Avatarland (actually, I think some of the concepts for it look pretty cool even though I wasn't a fan of the movie) have them in full blown panic and they don't know how to respond to it. Instead of consistently investing in the park over the years they're now throwing a huge wad of cash at it to try to stem the tide. The reason 7D has been so slow is they've been trying to spread the cost over several quarters to present a better look to their investors. Avatarland and the rest of FLE cost a ton and they didn't want 7D to make it worse. All of that said, there's some REALLY cool stuff on the drawing board that could be greenlit soon, especially related to Star Wars at DHS. I'm just hoping in their panic they don't pull that because what they have planned could be a game changer for WDW (and DHS, especially).

[Hammer]

While that certainly has been true, after spending a few days with several of the higher up suits from TDO the last week of January, I don't think that's the case now. I had quite a few words with them about this. Honestly, I think they're in panic mode because the old management did just sit back and rest on their laurels and now all the hype and excitement is going to Universal while Disney is just coasting on brand name. They are making real efforts to turn this around but the debacle of FP+ and the lukewarm reaction to Avatarland (actually, I think some of the concepts for it look pretty cool even though I wasn't a fan of the movie) have them in full blown panic and they don't know how to respond to it. Instead of consistently investing in the park over the years they're now throwing a huge wad of cash at it to try to stem the tide. The reason 7D has been so slow is they've been trying to spread the cost over several quarters to present a better look to their investors. Avatarland and the rest of FLE cost a ton and they didn't want 7D to make it worse. All of that said, there's some REALLY cool stuff on the drawing board that could be greenlit soon, especially related to Star Wars at DHS. I'm just hoping in their panic they don't pull that because what they have planned could be a game changer for WDW (and DHS, especially).

Chris, that makes a lot of sense. All companies that are publicly owned need to do this because Wall Street's reaction matters, whether we like it or not. They have to fix the mistakes that past TDO management made, just like TD Anaheim management had to fix the mistakes made with California Adventure, but costs needed to be spread out.

To be honest, I would rather the money that Real Simple Ideas wanted for PUSH (let's just say $1 million dollars for simplicity) go towards ride maintenance rather than something I've seen maybe twice in all my visits to WDW.

[yankeesfan123]

Another curious question about Real Simple Ideas and the technology...

Do they also own Wes Palm? Is their technology used in Mr. Potato Head, or is that a unique Disney intellectual property somehow?

Anyone know?

[DizneyRox]

I'm assuming that the idea for PUSH is owned by the vendor. Disney owns the trash can shape, etc, so neither is anywhere without the other. I'm sure there was some development to get a Disney trash can to do the things it did. Sounds like a game of chicken and neither flinched.

[Main Street Jim]

Another curious question about Real Simple Ideas and the technology...

Do they also own Wes Palm? Is their technology used in Mr. Potato Head, or is that a unique Disney intellectual property somehow?

Anyone know?

They own Push, Pipa, Wes Palm, and R2D2 at Studios.

'Tato Head is an AA put in and owned by Disney just for the Toy Story attraction.

[DizneyFreak2002]

While that certainly has been true, after spending a few days with several of the higher up suits from TDO the last week of January, I don't think that's the case now. I had quite a few words with them about this. Honestly, I think they're in panic mode because the old management did just sit back and rest on their laurels and now all the hype and excitement is going to Universal while Disney is just coasting on brand name. They are making real efforts to turn this around but the debacle of FP+ and the lukewarm reaction to Avatarland (actually, I think some of the concepts for it look pretty cool even though I wasn't a fan of the movie) have them in full blown panic and they don't know how to respond to it. Instead of consistently investing in the park over the years they're now throwing a huge wad of cash at it to try to stem the tide. The reason 7D has been so slow is they've been trying to spread the cost over several quarters to present a better look to their investors. Avatarland and the rest of FLE cost a ton and they didn't want 7D to make it worse. All of that said, there's some REALLY cool stuff on the drawing board that could be greenlit soon, especially related to Star Wars at DHS. I'm just hoping in their panic they don't pull that because what they have planned could be a game changer for WDW (and DHS, especially).

Oh to be a fly on the wall when those brainiacs meet... LOL.. I wish I were you for that period of time.. I'm sure it was a very interesting meeting...

7D, I believe several of us have stated that is exactly the reason it is taking so long to build... That is the reason Disney takes forever to build anything in WDW... They always spread it out... 7D could have (and should have) been done in a year... Thanks for verifying the info though.. I know some people don't want to believe this is the case...

I've always been a supporter of Avatar... I defended it left and right... Without seeing any concept art, I knew this land could be beautiful just based on the visuals from the movie... I'm hoping Soain (on steroids) Over Pandora wows us... I'm looking forward to the boat ride though.... I think that ride has the potential to be a nice little C ticket gem... Just too bad we won't see anything until 2017/2018... Too little, too late and won't be anything close to a Potter swatter...

As for Star Wars, we all know it is coming... Just a matter of when the funds are released... I still hold firm that nothing will be greenlit until they see ROI from this NextGen project... And Rasulo has already conceded they probably won't until 2015 (MAYBE)... So expect 6-8 more years before DHS sees Star Wars... (Also, I understand they are also waiting until scripts for the three movies are signed off on cause they want to incorporate stuff from the next 3 movies into any addition)... This could be a Potter swatter though... They should have been moving on this last year... But, hey, gotta get those mouse arrest bracelets on the guests wrists!!!!

I've said a few times TDO was panicked over Potter... And yet, no one believed me... Now, thank you, we have confirmation they truly are... Problem is, I still do not trust this management team to do anything of substance... New management? It is still Meg in charge of WDW, and Tom Stagss has NOT inspired any confidence that he is any different that Rasulo... George K? Yea, fall guy for when FP+, MMY+, and NextGen fails... It's good they are panicking and nervous... But actually doing something about it, well, that's another story... I'll believe it when I see it...

Thank you for the information you provided Chris... Much much much appreciated!!!

[Dixie Springs]

I'm still angry that they did away with FLUSH the talking toilet. The MK bathrooms are boring now.