How far can Disney go and keep you coming back?

[jdpip]

I feel like we've been fortunate in that we have been able to experience WDW on a budget through the years by camping at Fort Wilderness. We eat breakfast in the motorhome, maybe take something into the park or go back when we get hungry. We've always done everything at our own pace, no reservations for any dining, eat when we get hungry and it works for us. It's more relaxing that way and definitely less expensive. DH would rather hang out at FtW fishing or riding around on the golf cart! Disney will always make money and its frustrating that they take the perks away.

[Tekneek]

I just have to wonder, because we know Disney management has noticed the waste too, if items offered on the Dining Plan get dropped or adjusted because of the absurd amounts of perfectly good food that gets tossed on a daily basis. I have no idea...it's just a thought.

Assuming that was the motivation, why would it necessitate a price increase to go along with it? Seems like they would now be saving money on the wasted food items, so the price increase is just increasing the profit over that.

[TikiLounger]

Assuming that was the motivation, why would it necessitate a price increase to go along with it? Seems like they would now be saving money on the wasted food items, so the price increase is just increasing the profit over that.

You're right...I was just musing about the motivation behind cutting or adjusting the Dining Plans, not necessarily about the price increases. I assumed they'd see the waste, cut out the items to save money, and still raise the prices to make more of a profit.

[Plex]

Assuming that was the motivation, why would it necessitate a price increase to go along with it? Seems like they would now be saving money on the wasted food items, so the price increase is just increasing the profit over that.

You don't necessarily know what the price increase would have been if they kept the packages exactly the same. It's not a choice of one or the other - they may have just found a happy medium. (Or at least happy for their accounting department!)

There's been some debate on whether or not DDP actually saves people money anyway, so more people might just be opting out now if they feel that it provides less value to them.

[Tekneek]

There's been some debate on whether or not DDP actually saves people money anyway, so more people might just be opting out now if they feel that it provides less value to them.

Of course, which makes me think it was their long term plan from the start. Introduce this dining plan, which initially is a good value for many. Then you slowly drop things out of it and raise the price. Meanwhile, hoping along the way that people are either now jacked into the convenience of it or mistakenly believing it is the same value that it once was. I know, this is how big business operates, but Disney gets away with it even better than others because of their reputation as a "quality first" enterprise.

I think this standard business approach is going to have hidden costs for a company whose reputation was built on not being just like everybody else.

[Mickey91]

I think this standard business approach is going to have hidden costs for a company whose reputation was built on not being just like everybody else.

Again, hitting the nail of this whole thread on the head! Quick! We need to find another thread to disagree on! LOL! We have been agreeing entirely too much this week!

[ravsluvdisney]

Ahh, I don't really need 2 lungs....!

Up until our last trip we had noticed a drop-off in the quality of the magic with a drop in CS friendliness, fewer CS' as a whole (could explain point #1), some cleanliness issues, etc. which have always been the strong suit of WDW. Our past trip however we seemed to notice a much friendlier environment with CS' always around with a "hi", smile, a mickey high-4 and so on. They do make you pinch and scrimp to get there, but this place could never be confused with buying a fistful of tickets at the local carnival!

[Ian]

Of course, which makes me think it was their long term plan from the start. Introduce this dining plan, which initially is a good value for many. Then you slowly drop things out of it and raise the price. Meanwhile, hoping along the way that people are either now jacked into the convenience of it or mistakenly believing it is the same value that it once was.

I agree with this completely. Actually, this is their model for pretty much everything isn't it?

DVC has been this way, the DDP, the new and "improved" Magic "Your" Way ticket pricing structure ... they lure you in with a good deal, stick some "program subject to change without notice" language in your agreements, and then slowly nickel and dime you to death over the next five years.

Another thing I wanted to note is this ... I've been on the INTERCOT staff for more than a decade now. I've read a lot of posts and threads over the years and I can say without a doubt that when I started negative comments were one in a million. You almost never saw a complaint and if you did it was more of a, "Gee I can't believe this happened to me, because things are always perfect in Disney World!" kind of complaint.

Nowadays, though, it's rare for a single week to go by without multiple complaint threads popping up ... resort rooms not being cleaned properly, rude CM's, cutbacks, price increases ... you name it.

So, at best, I think it's a near certainty that Disney's service has if nothing else become inconsistent. You see people who notice the issues and people who still claim to have world class experiences in Disney World.

IMO, though, for a company like Disney inconsistent is just as bad as being bad across the board. Disney sells the experience and they sell it at a premium price. If people start to learn that you can't count on the experience consistently being great ... well ... I think that spells trouble.

[LVT]

I was in Busch Gardens, Universal and Disney in May 2009. We were in WDW 15 days, Universal
1.5 days (7 day ticket but no one in family wanted more). We also went to Seaworld. These "other" parks are worth a day each. We are all adults and going back to WDW for 14 days next year. Universal's HP will get a day. The experiences don't even come close for us. 3 guys and the mother.

[Dsnygirl]

Nowadays, though, it's rare for a single week to go by without multiple complaint threads popping up ... resort rooms not being cleaned properly, rude CM's, cutbacks, price increases ... you name it.

IMO, though, for a company like Disney inconsistent is just as bad as being bad across the board. Disney sells the experience and they sell it at a premium price. If people start to learn that you can't count on the experience consistently being great ... well ... I think that spells trouble.

Ian, I think you're hitting the danger zone for Disney perfectly. People are willing to pay for magic, for an experience, if it is an overall feeling throughout their entire trip. But when you start getting dirty rooms, rude CM's, broken rides, fewer unique souveneirs/foods/shows and a general feeling that everything is being "blended" into being one & the same throughout the parks, instead of feeling like you're getting a unique experience in each, then people are going to be less willing to fork out the extra $$.

And I TOTALLY agree with the thought behind what Tekneek said about Disney introducing something as "new, unique, the best thing since sliced bread, look at all we're giving you" and then slowly, piecing it apart until the product a few years later is a mere shadow of what was first offered. It's part of the reason my DH and I have never bought into the DDP or now even DVC... it sounds so good, but then listening to people who bought years ago and now are disgruntled with everything they've lost, it loses it's luster.

That being said, Disney IS still magic, and we'll continue to go as long as our kids love it and it brings us the joy it always has... but it'll probably be a bit less frequent as time goes by, and once the kids are big? I'm sure we'll still visit, esp. when something new opens, but unless Disney puts the bandages on what's bleeding, I'm not sure it will be as big a part of our future as we used to think it would be.

[Tekneek]

...we'll continue to go as long as our kids love it and it brings us the joy it always has...

Our next trip is part of a promise made to one of our children. She's the only one that hasn't had a chance to celebrate a birthday there, so we feel obligated to make it happen for her. When we return to WDW after that will have a lot to do with how that trip goes.

[Mickey91]

Our next trip is part of a promise made to one of our children. She's the only one that hasn't had a chance to celebrate a birthday there, so we feel obligated to make it happen for her. When we return to WDW after that will have a lot to do with how that trip goes.

I agree. But we used to just know we would be planning our next trip before we made it off WDW
property.

[Ian]

A huge difference in terms of my dynamic with Disney World is this ... when DD was born back in 2002 I was like, "Sweet! Now I have an excuse to go to Disney World more often!"

DW and I went to Disney World together something like a dozen or more times before our kids were born and we really, really loved it. We even honeymooned there.

But to be perfectly honest, I could take it or leave it at this point. If I didn't have kids who loved going, I doubt I'd go back. We used to go like two or three times a year at least. We've been once this year and are going back in December, but only because my brother is getting married down there. If not for that, I'm not sure when the next time would have been.

If it wasn't for my kids, I think I can definitively say that I'd probably sell my DVC and make Disney World a once every couple years kind of thing. I might visit DIsneyland more frequently, but WDW not so much.

[Mickey91]

I have to admit, my DH and I are the driving forces behind every trip. My DD(12) still gets a little excited but our DS(16) would rather visit a concrete slab with roller coasters on every square inch. I still catch him enjoying himself when he thinks no one is looking, but he complains far more than anyone should when at the World. I sincerely hope he comes back around to seeing the magic.

But, we find it less and less satisfying ourselves. I used to scrimp and save and eat mac n cheese a lot so we could go for a week and really have a great experience. But the experiences have left us feeling a bit deflated the last few years and we wonder why we scrimp so much to go. Now we keep going back hoping to recapture the magic that was lost. My main reason for this trip is to see MSEP. I cannot wait to see it! I hope the changes won't ruin the experience as I have read the music was tweaked a little and that is my favorite part aside from the Eliot float. Plus I was excited to ride TTMM but it is now down for a line refurb...just my luck.

[PopPhan]

Another thing I wanted to note is this ... I've been on the INTERCOT staff for more than a decade now. I've read a lot of posts and threads over the years and I can say without a doubt that when I started negative comments were one in a million. You almost never saw a complaint and if you did it was more of a, "Gee I can't believe this happened to me, because things are always perfect in Disney World!" kind of complaint.

Nowadays, though, it's rare for a single week to go by without multiple complaint threads popping up ... resort rooms not being cleaned properly, rude CM's, cutbacks, price increases ... you name it.

Ian, do you really believe that the increase in negative posts comes from worsening conditions in/at/around WDW or could it be that not everyone is "drinking the kool-aid" anymore. (BTW - How many people that use that phrase actually know what it refers to? I remember the Jonestown Massacre well, but a lot of the posters here were not even born when it occurred!)

I'm thinking that it is actually a combination -- Things are not as "magical" as they used to be at/in/around WDW, but also people are not feeling like they will be ostracized for less than glowing comments about WDW, and Disney in general.

Also, in this weakened economy, aren't people hoping/wanting/expecting to get more for their hard earned money and are more vocal about it when they don't?

Just my 2 cents....Please take them with a healthy dose of salt!!!

[Mickey91]

Ian, do you really believe that the increase in negative posts comes from worsening conditions in/at/around WDW

I certainly think so. My more negative comments are in direct relation to the lessened quality and magic in our vacation. And I don't mean the magic that just happens if there is something special going on and I don't need a towel animal in my room to feel the magic. But the little things. The paint isn't as fresh, the bathrooms aren't as clean, many activities have had little things taken away, less live entertainment at resorts and before shows, CMs who would rather pick their nose than be courteous to guests needing help. Be given a horrible woods view room instead of the garden view you paid for and telling you to be happy you have a room. This is not the way of Disney in the past and used to be a rare occurrence but has become common place. And, since this is a fan site, we are all mostly regular visitors and are all becoming a bit irritated with people messing with our magic!

[Ian]

Ian, do you really believe that the increase in negative posts comes from worsening conditions in/at/around WDW or could it be that not everyone is "drinking the kool-aid" anymore.

I think it's a little of both, actually. I mean where there's smoke there's fire, right?

The dynamic is probably something along the lines of service and quality decline, a few die-hards notice and talk about it on the boards, people pooh-pooh them for being too negative. But then a few more people become attuned to it and notice a decline and then they talk about it. Gradually as it gets discussed more and more it becomes more mainstream and not as easily shouted down.

I can tell you definitively for me, though, that I absolutely notice a significant decline in both service and quality in Disney World over the last decade.

(BTW - How many people that use that phrase actually know what it refers to? I remember the Jonestown Massacre well, but a lot of the posters here were not even born when it occurred!)

Sadly, I was born then and I know the origin of that saying, as well.

[Ms. Mode]

My thought is that they should stop offering the discounts, then they can lower the price overall!

As for the cost, I'm going to WDW as often as I can! We have only stayed at the Deluxe Resort once, if that means I'm going back to POP...well...ok!

[Mickey91]

My thought is that they should stop offering the discounts, then they can lower the price overall!

As for the cost, I'm going to WDW as often as I can! We have only stayed at the Deluxe Resort once, if that means I'm going back to POP...well...ok!

Sad part is, with the current Disney mentality, the discounts are bound to disappear and the price overall (without discount to start with)will remain the same or go up, all while they continue to make cuts in quality and service.

[Bass T-bone]

Remember gas wars? haha...

What we need is a good old fashion theme park war!

Yes my friends, this is a sticky wicket and I'm afraid there's no turning back. As for discounts, I think its all an illusion anyway. Free dining is a good example. Yes, the dining might be free, but you're paying rack room rates if you take the dining option.