JHM claims "Disney's Night Kingdom" will be WDW's 5th gate

[WDWizard]

I just read an interesting article on Jimhillmedia.com claiming that Disney is planning on building an exclusive limited-admission park in the style of Sea World's Discovery Cove as WDW's 5th gate, Disney's Night Kingdom.

TiggerFan452 writes in to say:

Hey Jim,

Just wondering if you've heard anything about these focus groups that Disney World has been recruiting people for. If you take part, you're apparently shown a preview video for something called "Disney's Night Kingdom". Any idea what this project is about and if Disney's actually going to build the thing?

Dear TiggerFan452
"Disney's Night Kingdom" is the Mouse's long overdue response to SeaWorld's Discovery Cove. And -- yes -- the Mouse is actually going to build this $520 million project. Current plans call for this niche park to officially throw open its doors in October of 2011, just in time for the start of Walt Disney World's 40th anniversary celebration.

"Why did you call 'Disney's Night Kingdom' a niche park?," you ask. Well, because -- just like Discovery Cove (Which only allows in a thousand visitors each day) -- DNK will be restricting the number of guests that can enter this park every afternoon. Only 2000 people will be allowed into WDW's 5th theme park at any one time.

And -- yes -- I said "afternoon." Disney's Night Kingdom's operating hours will be 4 p.m. to midnight (5 p.m. to 1 a.m. during daylight savings time).
Okay. I know. DNK already sounds unlike any Disney theme park that's currently operating on the planet. But there's a reason for that. The Imagineers want your Disney's Night Kingdom experience to be distinctly different. Something that you'll remember for the rest of your life.

How so? Well, let's first start with the extraordinary guest service that you'll experience as you enter DNK. Current plans call for Disney's Night Kingdom to be staffed by 4000 cast members. That means that -- for every guest that visits this theme park -- there'll be two cast members to take care of their every need. So expect to receive a lot of personalized attention & pampering once you arrive on site.

Speaking of arriving ... Guests will enter DNK through a new, super-sized version of the Adventurers Club at Pleasure Island. As you & your family are registering for that night's activities, the club's members will entertain as well as offer hints about the extraordinary adventures that await you.
After you've finished checking in, there's a whole new world to explore. Have you ever dreamed of acting like Indiana Jones and riding a zip line over a pool full of hungry crocodiles? Or hand-feeding a hippopotamus? Well, here you can.

Mind you, Disney's Night Kingdom will have no traditional theme park rides per se. But you'll still be able to get your fill of excitement & adventure as you strap on a pair of night vision goggles and then wander out into a pitch-black African savanna. Where you'll then be able to observe up-close lions & hyenas as they go through their nocturnal hunting routines.

You'll also be able to try your hand at spelunking as you explore a cave full of bats. Or -- if you're not a big fan of bats -- how about rock climbing? Does that sound too much like work? Then why don't you head on over to that Southern American-themed enclosure where you can frolic with some penguins?

As for the look of Disney's Night Kingdom ... Well, this theme park's horticultural budget will be just about as big as WDW's Typhoon Lagoon is. So expect DNK to look pretty lush.

And once you've had your fill of adventures, why not grab a gourmet meal at one of the park's two highly themed eateries? Or -- better yet -- find a seat inside of Night Kingdom's centrally located main theater. Where you'll then be dazzled by a state-of-the-art stage show which will be produced by Disney Theatrical and feature top Broadway talent.

I know, I know. A lot of you may have trouble wrapping your heads around a Disney theme park that's as distinctly different as DNK is going to be. That's why the business plan that the Walt Disney Company has drawn up for this project calls for Disney's Night Kingdom to operate at only 60% capacity during its first year of operation and then only 80% capacity during Year 2. Starting in Year 3 ... Well, by then, Disney hopes to have all of the bugs worked out (not to mention finally having a handle on the marketing of WDW's newest theme park). Which is why they then plan on Disney's Night Kingdom operating at 100% capacity during its third year of operation.

As for future plans for the park ... Well, DNK's blueprints do include spots for two new hotels. But these resorts will only be built in response to guest need.
Speaking of hotels ... The Mouse expects that Disney World's higher end resorts (i.e. The Contemporary, the Polynesian, the Grand Flo, Wilderness Lodge, Animal Kingdom Lodge, the Yacht & Beach Club, the Boardwalk as well as the Dolphin & the Swan) will be the primary feeders for Disney's Night Kingdom. With DNK drawing most of its visitors from these pricier on-property hotels.

"And why is that?," you query. Because just like Discovery Cove (which charges $269 - $289 for a one day adventure that also includes a week's worth of free admission to either SeaWorld Orlando or Busch Gardens Africa), admission to DNK is going to be pricey. Right now, Mickey's leaning toward charging guests $250 - $300 per person in order to gain entry to DNK.
Now keep in mind that this admission fee will also cover the cost of the gourmet meal that you'll be consuming while you visit Disney's Night Kingdom. Plus any non-alcoholic beverages that you quaff over the course of that evening. More importantly, that your admission fee to WDW's newest theme park will be considerably lower should you purchase it as part of a Disney World vacation package.

Another thing that you need to be aware of here is that the Mouse also plans on making DNK available to convention groups. So WDW's newest theme park could wind up being sold out for weeks, if not months in advance. Which is why -- if you really want to visit Disney's Night Kingdom -- advance reservations will definitely be recommended.

As to when the Walt Disney Company will be revealing that this project is actually in the works ... Next month's annual shareholder meeting in Albuquerque is a possibility. Though it's far more likely that Mickey will wait 'til the fall. So that Disney's Night Kingdom can then be announced as part of WDW's annual press event.

So there you have it, folks. Disney World's next theme park will NOT be Villains themed and/or loaded with lots of coasters. But -- rather -- it will be an intimate, natural environment that then offers you the chance to have lots of personalized, hands-on, once-in-a-lifetime adventures.

So now the big question is ... Come 2011, will you actually be willing to pay $250 - $300 to experience something like this while vacationing at Walt Disney World?
Your thoughts?

What do you think? Is this a good idea? I'm a bit skeptical on the whole idea because only a limited amout of guests that are willing to dish out $250+ will be able to enjoy it. For those that do get to visit the park, it does seem like a great unique experience. And before you all dismiss this as a false rumor, there is credibility in that there has been a lot of talk that Disney Parks and Resorts have been wanting to build this type of park for a while now. I havent heard about them recruiting people for focus groups, though.

[NotaGeek]

What do you think? Is this a good idea? I'm a bit skeptical on the whole idea because only a limited amout of guests that are willing to dish out $250+ will be able to enjoy it. For those that do get to visit the park, it does seem like a great unique experience. And before you all dismiss this as a false rumor, there is credibility in that there has been a lot of talk that Disney Parks and Resorts have been wanting to build this type of park for a while now. I havent heard about them recruiting people for focus groups, though.

If this big rumor comes true, there will be far more than a 'limited" amount of guests that will shell out $250-300 for this ... it will be sold out for months. Come on ... with all the millions upon millions of people that visit WDW, there will never be a shortage of people that can afford this event, especially with that exchange rate the British enjoy!

[chrisb26]

Well if this was true I would don't there would be any shortage of people paying that price. Especially if only a limited number of people were allowed to go each night. I'm sure they would easily find people to go to that and pay it.

Now I don't know if this is true or not. I don't know that I would believe him. I'm not real sure who he is but I'm pretty sure he isn't with Disney. And the amount of detail he went into about the attraction is what makes me believe it isn't true. For something that big there is no way Disney would let that much information slip. He had details on so much of what it would contain.

Some of it also seems far fetched. Such as the Lion and Hyena hunting thing. I doubt they would let guests get up close and personal to that. Also I can't believe that Disney would have an attraction that would let you watch animals hunt one another. Even in Animal Kingdom's savanna they don't hunt they get their food.

Anyways I think it would be cool if something like that were to come but I wouldn't hold my breath for something like that.

[GrumpyFan]

Sounds... Interesting... If it's beleivable.

Consider the source, Jim Hill. Occasionally (strong emphasis) he gets a legitimate scoop on something that is actually going to get the green light. But, more often than not, he's wrong. Not that I don't believe that something like this is actually being considered, because I think it's very likely. But, I have to wonder if the board is ready for this. Especially considering the huge investment they just made in DCA, and the uncertainty of the current U.S. economy. But, then again, when the economy is down, is usually a good time to look at new ideas of pumping things up. So, in the end, I don't know. Just too many things to consider.

[SurferStitch]

Actually, Jim Hill is correct more often than people around here give him credit for. I never understood why he gets bashed so badly here.

Sounds like a great idea for a park, and we would definitely be two of those who would shell out the bucks to go. Crowds in the WDW parks are almost insane anymore, and it would be great to have a place for one day in our trip that isn't packed with people.

Before I go bashing Jim Hill saying he doesn't know anything, I'll wait and see what comes down the pipeline.

[Sunshine1010]

Jim Hill?

[PirateLover]

Maybe I'm crazy but 2011 doesn't seem plausible at all. They wouldn't be able to break ground until it was announced, which would leave them a little over 2 years to get this whole thing completed. Considering that it sometimes takes a 1/2 yr to a yr to do major overhauls of attractions, I don't think a park can be built in two years. (but I really have no clue it's just a guess on my part so any experts can feel free to correct me).

Now, would I pay for it? Sure, once.

Do I believe it will happen?
I really don't know. It does seem really far fetched to me but I guess you never know.

[Ian]

Actually, Jim Hill is correct more often than people around here give him credit for. I never understood why he gets bashed so badly here.

Actually, I'd challenge you to give me one example of when Jim has been right about much of anything.

Remember that "Canada River Raft" ride that was supposedly "greenlit" for Epcot a couple year's ago??

Honestly, the more I read Jim's site the more I think he's an animation geek who doesn't have a clue about theme parks. I think he talks to people who think they know something and he just runs with it because people expect him to have rumors on his site.

This idea is just too stupid to be real. It might have been kicked around as a blue sky concept, but come on ... most of that stuff is stuff you can do in zoos or even your local mall these days. The rest is stuff no one would want to do. Have you ever seen the inside of a cave full of bats???

[brownie]

Based on the numbers in the article, it doesn't seem that there's much of a return on investment (it might take a while to recover the costs of building it.) I probably would not shell out $250-300 a person for admission to a park for 8 hours, but that's just me. I think they would probably be able to keep the park close to capacity, though.

At this point, I don't see how this really would be a good fit, but it's mostly rumor and conjecture right now anyways.

[Ian]

Based on the numbers in the article, it doesn't seem that there's much of a return on investment (it might take a while to recover the costs of building it.)

On the surface it doesn't, no. I mean 2,000 people a night at $300 per person only comes to $600,000 a day in income over what would obviously be an expensive enterprise to maintain (4,000 cast members??).

But remember, they'll still sell you overpriced booze, t-shirts, spinning light up thingies, plush, junky plastic playsets, and the like. That's the real money machine for WDW anyway.

[GrumpyFan]

Jim Hill?

Jim Hill is a blogger who writes about the entertainment industry, with a large focus on Disney and animation in general. If I remember correctly, he worked for the Orlando Sentinel for a short time writing about the goings on around Orlando and Disney. He's also collaborated with several other web-sites, but has his own site now. Just Google "Jim Hill" and you'll find his site.

In the past year, he's had at least 3 different stories about possible new additions to Epcot, including Australia, adding a major attraction to Japan, and Russia. I have to wonder if his sources are baiting him, or if he's just exaggerating on the tidbits of stories that he gets. Occasionally he'll get a morsel of information that turns into something legitimate, but it hasn't happened with anything that I've read from him in a while. Nonetheless, I still enjoy reading his articles as he sometimes has some interesting backstory about existing or past attractions.

[poeticeclipse]

First, let me just say that Disney will have no problem getting people to shell out the dough. Especially for more of a hands on experience. Like the article stated... this park is aimed towards those who WILL pay the big bucks to get the kind of service they desire.

Secondly, I've only known a little bit about DNK before this article was posted here. At first, I thought "not gonna work..." After reading more prospective details of the park, i'm interested, intrigued.

I really can't wait to see some concept art/video. This should get interesting.

Oh, and as for would I pay it? I'm normally a value resort customer and i'd pay the extra to give it a shot. Just because I don't like to pay a lot for my bed at night doesn't mean I won't shell out more money for my entertainment. I think a lot of people feel the same way.

[Roger's #1 Fan]

I posted a comment about the teaser article Jim put up on Thursday about this park (chazbo6). I have to believe that this would be an offshoot of DAK since the infrastructure to support animals is already in place and I think the existing footprint could absorb this concept. That being said, with talk about a nighttime parade and other work at DAK aimed at making it a "full day" park I don't know how this would fit.
This would fit the timeline, however, as Piratelover pointed out, if they just added this park to DAK with a separate access and entrance.

All that being said, I'll believe it when they announce it.

[valjane]

I thought they were having enough problems keeping the current properties/parks staffed. Where are they going to find 4000 more people? That's an incredible number, and seems sort of (well, really) unrealistic.

[GrumpyFan]

I find the concept interesting. Especially considering some of the other discussions I've seen in the past about how the addition of DAK didn't really cause people to stay at WDW any longer than they were. I think I remember reading that on Jim Hill's web-site. I'm not sure if that's changed, or the legitimacy of that story, but if it is true, I can't see how adding a high priced, specialty park, is going to make a whole lot of difference either.

Of course, the majority of WDW visitors will not experience this park due to the high price and the limited number of guests allowed in daily. It's an interesting, but quite risky concept. And, unless they have just the right mix of attractions/adventures it's going to struggle. And, based on what Jim mentioned in his article, I wasn't impressed.

This is just my speculation, but I think it's possible too, that they are looking at doing this somewhere other than at WDW. Or perhaps WDW will be a small test bed, and then they'll go to other major tourist areas with it to try and steal money away from those markets.

[sillyolbear]

Maybe I'm crazy but 2011 doesn't seem plausible at all. They wouldn't be able to break ground until it was announced, which would leave them a little over 2 years to get this whole thing completed. Considering that it sometimes takes a 1/2 yr to a yr to do major overhauls of attractions, I don't think a park can be built in two years. (but I really have no clue it's just a guess on my part so any experts can feel free to correct me).

Now, would I pay for it? Sure, once.

Do I believe it will happen?
I really don't know. It does seem really far fetched to me but I guess you never know.

I agree that 2011 seems a little implausible.

I might pay for it once--after all the kinks have been worked out. But, I'm a little skeptical that we'll ever see this one. There are a lot of rumors flying around that make more sense than this one.

[brownie]

On the surface it doesn't, no. I mean 2,000 people a night at $300 per person only comes to $600,000 a day in income over what would obviously be an expensive enterprise to maintain (4,000 cast members??).

But remember, they'll still sell you overpriced booze, t-shirts, spinning light up thingies, plush, junky plastic playsets, and the like. That's the real money machine for WDW anyway.

I think they'd have to sell an awful lot. If you look at an average labor rate of say $8 per hour, that's $256,000 a day just in labor, not counting taxes, benefits, training, and all the other labor costs. Doesn't leave a lot left to cover the cost to build the park and to operate it. It could be done, but it sure looks like a stretch to me right now.

[mcjaco]

A few thoughts. One, I can't see Disney being able to find an additional 4000 people to staff the park. They're having problems staffing the four they have right now.

Second, although I beleive they have batted around ideas for this park for some time to rival Discovery Cove, I don't think it'll really come to fruition.

Third, I too challenge someone to find anything Jim Hill writes actually happening. He fools everyone into thinking it'll happen by his writing style, and in turn his writing style always gives him a way out if he's wrong. Then again, he hardly ever rehashes any of his previous insider scoops after he dishes them out.

Like all Disney "insiders" I take them with a grain of salt. I just don't think anyone out there has a key to an inside scoop. There's probably some very strongly worded disclosure statements in employment contracts for much of any of the projects.

[DizneyFreak2002]

You all jump on Jim Hill for not being credible... Remember this: When he reports something, he reports it as it CURRENTLY is.... There are times when things are green lit, then pulled back, cancelled, or scaled down... And people then go on the attack... So, with your arguments that Jim announces things that don't happen makes in not credible, then, hold Disney to the same standard as they announce things that don't always come to fruition either... Remember all the Disney Decade stuff Disney was getting??? How about all the Epcot expansion??? What happened??? OHHH yea... BEASTLY KINGDOMME!!! Announced, blue prints drawn up.. and where is it now??? Disney is not credible, right???

Jim announces a night park... Just because some of you don't like the idea doesn't mean he isn't right.... So he makes this announcement in February, for something that is scheduled to open in 2011 and not be officially announced until this coming autumn... In the next coming months, maybe Disney realizes this isn't going to be a good idea, and cancels the project... All you Jim Hill bashers would say SEE HE IS WRONG AGAIN!!! Well, just keep in mind that as of now (February 15, 2008) this park IS being planned and IS in the works and WILL be opening... And also remember, things change quickly in Disney... Doesn't make Jim wrong... I see more people on here post rumors they hear that are more wrong than he is....

[Ian]

It would be one thing, though, if he reported them the way you just did. "This is the way things currently are, from what I hear, but bear in mind this could all change, blah blah blah ... "

Instead, he makes himself out to be some kind of insider with all this knowledge and he turns out to be wrong virtually 100% of the time. And you wonder why people question his credibility?? Can you imagine anyone in the mainstream media (except a weatherperson ) who was wrong 100% of the time, yet drew no criticism for it??

Also, a good journalist has to know when a rumor has progressed beyond blue sky and is actually greenlit to go. In addition, they need to report which one it is.

Lastly, he NEVER (and I stress never) admits he was wrong! He never posts a mea culpa when he misses the mark and he dodges all criticism when people call him on the carpet for it.

And finally ... read these quotes from the story:

"Disney's Night Kingdom" is the Mouse's long overdue response to SeaWorld's Discovery Cove. And -- yes -- the Mouse is actually going to build this $520 million project.

As to when the Walt Disney Company will be revealing that this project is actually in the works ...

So there you have it, folks. Disney World's next theme park will NOT be Villains themed and/or loaded with lots of coasters. But -- rather -- it will be an intimate, natural environment that then offers you the chance to have lots of personalized, hands-on, once-in-a-lifetime adventures.

Does any of that sound to you like Jim is presenting this as being reported, " ... as it currently is ... "?

Doesn't to me ... sounds like typical windbag Jim Hill trying once again to convince people that he got a scoop.