Spaceship Earth Revamp - Wonderful AND Woeful

[TheRustyScupper]

Sometimes "upgrading" is a bad thing. Just look at Windows Vista for proof!

. . . No problem for me.
. . . I simply "upgraded" to Windows-XP.

I'll hold off on making my assessment until I've ridden the final version for myself.

. . . I said the same thing.
. . . I waited until I rode it.
. . . Now I agree with the other sad reviews.

NOTE: I will take the High Road and assume they are not done. But, then I fault the Imagineers for letting people on an inferior ride, ruining the magic of the ride. Let's all hope the ride gets better. I just can't believe that Siemens would allow such a terrible last-half ride.

[magicofdisney]

We were at Epcot yesterday and there was no soft opening during the times we were near SSE. In a fearful, ominous sense of the word, I had wanted to see the changes with my own eyes.

[Surfer_Clock]

I don't really think I'm too surprised by the changes made to SSE now. I've had the chance to ride it twice, and will likely ride it again during my "finish up the Christmas shopping" trip. This is the latest in an era of "story" based Imagineering. Story has become such an intense focus of WDI that sometimes, a piece or two of the nogalstic magic must be lost.

To me, Spaceship Earth's recent changes represent the latest attempt to keep Epcot at its most current state. We all know that it's never supposed to be finished, and that it's an ever-changing look into the future. What could be more versatile than being able to choose the sort of future you'd like to live in? Maybe the choices are rather limited now, but any upgrades made could potentially include more questions and possibilities for the 'toony future. It's in an easy-to-digest package for the little ones, and in my opinion, preps for the post-show environment, where Guests can take hands-on charge of their future. It illustrates the key fundamentals of Walt's views on learning, namely that people should have fun while they learn (and trust me, powering that future city -is- fun...did it with a CP friend of mine last week).

Just because it's so radically different doesn't mean that Walt's values have been lost on it. I think we need to give it more time to shine...at the same time, let's also remember that without change, there'd be no progress.

[John]

I don't really think I'm too surprised by the changes made to SSE now. I've had the chance to ride it twice, and will likely ride it again during my "finish up the Christmas shopping" trip. This is the latest in an era of "story" based Imagineering. Story has become such an intense focus of WDI that sometimes, a piece or two of the nogalstic magic must be lost.

To me, Spaceship Earth's recent changes represent the latest attempt to keep Epcot at its most current state. We all know that it's never supposed to be finished, and that it's an ever-changing look into the future. What could be more versatile than being able to choose the sort of future you'd like to live in? Maybe the choices are rather limited now, but any upgrades made could potentially include more questions and possibilities for the 'toony future. It's in an easy-to-digest package for the little ones, and in my opinion, preps for the post-show environment, where Guests can take hands-on charge of their future. It illustrates the key fundamentals of Walt's views on learning, namely that people should have fun while they learn (and trust me, powering that future city -is- fun...did it with a CP friend of mine last week).

Just because it's so radically different doesn't mean that Walt's values have been lost on it. I think we need to give it more time to shine...at the same time, let's also remember that without change, there'd be no progress.

I was going to say, are you sure you don't work for WDI? Then I saw you are an active cast member.

Look, I don't know that anyone is saying that the ending couldn't work, just that there wasn't enough thought given to a) the video and b) the surroundings for when you finish taking your on screen quiz or if you don't really care to get that interactive.

There's a lot of things that could be done while the main focus remained on your screens - or the screens could have worked and blended with the surrounding scenery and related to it all while still being interactive.

Bottom line - I think WDI missed the boat on the ending and many of us here hope they will right the ship. However, given the disaster that happened at Imagination and the lack of a fix (how many years later now?), I am not too hopeful.

A few final words - Change doesn't necessarily equal Progress. Sometimes, it's just change and nothing more. Regards to Walts values, I'll leave that alone except to say Walt was always trying to make things better. If he had ridden the ride, I'm sure they would have gotten a "what the heck is with all these black curtains in here".

[John]

. . . No problem for me.
. . . I simply "upgraded" to Windows-XP.

Hahahaha. Same here Rusty. Same here. Then I installed "windowblinds" with the "vista look" - as that's the only thing I liked about it!

[Surfer_Clock]

I was going to say, are you sure you don't work for WDI? Then I saw you are an active cast member.

And maybe I am buying a little too deeply into WDI's current principles. I have researched into the subtle changes since the Eisner era that've taken place in WDI. Overall, things haven't at all been the same.

Look, I don't know that anyone is saying that the ending couldn't work, just that there wasn't enough thought given to a) the video and b) the surroundings for when you finish taking your on screen quiz or if you don't really care to get that interactive.

There's a lot of things that could be done while the main focus remained on your screens - or the screens could have worked and blended with the surrounding scenery and related to it all while still being interactive.

My first ride though did result in everything just...stopping. The music died, and everything came to a dead halt. Then the prompts came on. My friend answered the prompts while I just looked around...noticing the emptiness of the star field. This is something that should probably be addressed, and I do agree that there could be some livening up.

Bottom line - I think WDI missed the boat on the ending and many of us here hope they will right the ship. However, given the disaster that happened at Imagination and the lack of a fix (how many years later now?), I am not too hopeful.

JIIWF is a disaster, I'll give you that, and fully back you on hopes for a fix someday. >< Certainly doesn't help that Kodak has the rights to Dreamfinder.

A few final words - Change doesn't necessarily equal Progress. Sometimes, it's just change and nothing more. Regards to Walts values, I'll leave that alone except to say Walt was always trying to make things better. If he had ridden the ride, I'm sure they would have gotten a "what the heck is with all these black curtains in here".

I believe I also forgot to address that my main complaint about the touch screens is their lack of utilization throughout the ride. I mean, they just go black after the beginning...that would be of more use as maybe a timeline or something else.

Y'know what? You're absolutely right about the need for improvements. I wouldn't, however, move to dismiss the entire idea of the touchscreens. There's a lot of potential there (and when I rode with my mother, the first word out of her mouth was "Horizons!"), and in much of the ridethrough, it's being wasted. Rather than sit there with a half-baked and underutilized, it needs even some minor utilization. Would also help if I knew what they were taking our picture for, too.

[John]

Actually, I agree the touchscreens - if utilized properly - can definately add to this classic attraction. Something simple as you go thru the ride such as a timeline would be appropriate and welcome - just keep it basic (and with a dark background - such as a starfield) so that it adds to the story and doesn't take away from the scenes. Maybe the light from the screens isn't possible to dim to the point where it's not distracting.

No complaint from me on that addition - just the lack of imagination in the descent.

[Ian]

Let me preface this by saying that the touch screen concept alone isn't bad. It's the execution that stinks.

Now as far as Walt goes ... people sometimes confuse Walt as being an advocate for "change" as opposed to what he was really an advocate of, which was what he called "plussing."

There's is a HUGE difference between change just for change sakes (or change that actually regresses an attraction) and what Walt wanted to do, which was constantly tweak and improve on his parks.

Change does not always = improvement, as I think we've all seen from disasters like JIYI, Stitch, Test Track, Mission Space, etc. In fact, with very few exceptions, WDI has pretty much botched every total revamp they've ever attempted.

[JPL]

A perfect example of "Plussing" can be found at the newly refurbed Haunted Mansion. It added a scene, updated effects, new audio configuration in the stretching room and addressed some other minor problem areas. The attraction itself remained intact and the feel didn't change very much. The experience is almost the same but far superior than the original it has been "plussed"

What most of us are talking when we talk about change and not liking it comes from a long of history of change for the wrong reasons. I list these as the following


1. Change for the simple sake of change.
2. Change to save Money.
3. Change to go with trends (ie. POTC).

Of course it's always a case by case basis but these are some good examples for bad reasons to change an attraction.

[Red Randal]

A perfect example of "Plussing" can be found at the newly refurbed Haunted Mansion. It added a scene, updated effects, new audio configuration in the stretching room and addressed some other minor problem areas. The attraction itself remained intact and the feel didn't change very much. The experience is almost the same but far superior than the original it has been "plussed"

What most of us are talking when we talk about change and not liking it comes from a long of history of change for the wrong reasons. I list these as the following

1. Change for the simple sake of change.
2. Change to save Money.
3. Change to go with trends (ie. POTC).

I generally agree with you but I wouldn't go so far as to say the Pirates revamp was a bad idea. After all, would you argue against the Living Seas/Nemo revamp as a "trend" as well? I think that was really well done.

JIIWF is a disaster, I'll give you that, and fully back you on hopes for a fix someday. >< Certainly doesn't help that Kodak has the rights to Dreamfinder.

WHAT!?! I've never heard that tidbit before. Is that why he's gone from the ride? Because Kodak owns rights to the character? Can that be right?

[DizHawk]

A perfect example of plussing is what was done on the first half of SSE. The ride was made better through the improvements done. I'm not sure stopping with the "invention" of the personal computer by Apple (still bugs me) would be the place to stop, but most everything up to that point was an improvement over what had been there before.

A perfect example of change screwing up something is the descent of SSE.

Keep it closed for a few more months and really fix it up. I can't imagine this is how Siemens wanted to make their big opening splash at Epcot.

[JPL]

I generally agree with you but I wouldn't go so far as to say the Pirates revamp was a bad idea.

The reasons I see Pirates as a bad idea and going with the trend is because it essentially "dumbed" the attraction down since people couldn't understand that Movie was based on the ride. It also looks like the AAs as well done as they are don't fit in with the originals with the stylized appearance. The new Jack Sparrow seems very forced and the placement look as if they were forced into existing spaces. They also totally changed the ending scene from an elaborate ending to an easy to maintain 1 AA ending to save money.

After all, would you argue against the Living Seas/Nemo revamp as a "trend" as well? I think that was really well done.

The Living Seas was in need of some serious help when the refurb was done. The main tank was in really bad since they lost their sponsor. While I am not 100% happy with the refurb since it doesn't fit the Future World theme, they did it right as you stated. Turtle talk is a great show using the living character technology. In the ride they showcased new technology that had a wow factor and told a story while doing so and great theming throughout even the queue line is amazing.

[disneydoug]

We were at WDW December 15-19. About 7:30 p.m. one evening we were leaving EPCOT and a CM opened a door and asked if we wanted to get a sneak peek at SSE. DUH, YES!!!!!!!!!! Several people in the surrounding area quickly saw what was happening and we all got to ride. I have to agree with the other posts. The first half was great and the 2nd half was below Disney standards. We were so blessed to get the chance, though. we are thankful.

Doug

[Main Street Jim]

OK, so we "got lucky" and got into a "sneak preview" Thursday morning. Didn't really know what to expect...but we were very disappointed with the way the attraction is at this time. The new narration is really "dumbed down" and makes us (that would be human civilization) sound and feel like idiots. I don't like the Judi Dench narration - a female voice just doesn't fit the attraction at all in my opinion. As for the new show scenes, they took out the "Walt Disney Presents" on the living room TV, took out the Greek theatre scene (it's now Greek scholars) ("Mathematics..."), and after the telegraph/movie theater/living room scene - which represents the mid-20th century, you go - BANG! - right to some guy's garage (Steve Jobs) working on the first Apple computer. Then....NOTHING. Once you get to the top and your vehicle rotates backwards, you're literally in the dark for the ride down. Sure, your touch-screen turns on, but there's absolutely NOTHING else to look at on the way down.

We're are comparing this to the first re-make of the Imagination pavilion, when Figment was removed completely. We're both very disappointed with the way SSE is right now. She (my girlfriend) had made a comment: "They've now managed to destroy every pavilion in Future World now. There's nothing left of the original Future World." Sure, SSE was re-done before, but it kept its original Epcot feel. This thing now is just an abomination, much like the WoM-to-Test Track, Horizons-to-Mission: Space, Figment-to-non-Figment Imagination, Kitchen Kabaret-to-Food Rocks!-to-Soarin'...<sigh...>

[Red Randal]

We're are comparing this to the first re-make of the Imagination pavilion, when Figment was removed completely. We're both very disappointed with the way SSE is right now. She (my girlfriend) had made a comment: "They've now managed to destroy every pavilion in Future World now. There's nothing left of the original Future World." Sure, SSE was re-done before, but it kept its original Epcot feel. This thing now is just an abomination, much like the WoM-to-Test Track, Horizons-to-Mission: Space, Figment-to-non-Figment Imagination, Kitchen Kabaret-to-Food Rocks!-to-Soarin'...<sigh...>

Like I've said before, I haven't been on the ride yet, but I feel like this reaction will go away soon. There is simply no way the ride can be THAT BAD. World of Motion and Horizons are gone...Horizons was DEMOLISHED. Spaceship Earth is still the same. The AA scenes are the same and/or better with the new designs.

What was so awesome about the old decent anyway? Are you really going to miss it?

From my original review of the ride...
Now we begin to move through the really goofy part of the ride that depicts “the technology of today” and “the future.” Trust me, it’s not even the quirky campy kind of stuff like in Horizons, it’s just the stuff that’s simply incorrect. For instance, a kid in America (with a mark-out inducing Typhoon Lagoon surfboard in his room) plays video games and talks to a kid in Japan (who, of course, appears to live in a pagoda.) Sure, this kind of technology exists and is pretty common today, but the games and the interface look nothing like the one that appears on screen because the one on screen is what people THOUGHT it would like in 1995. It’s like the virtual reality game in the Carousel of Progress.

We’ve JUST NOW made it to the top of the dome, so the “time machine” spins around so that we can descend at a much sharper angle than would be doable if we were facing forward. While we ride down the side of the globe we encounter more things that never have and never will exist (like kids in a classroom taking a virtual reality ride on a bumblebee.)

Finally, colorful lights flash overhead and some guests hum “Tomorrow’s Child” in their head as the ride comes to a conclusion. Get up, get out of the car, and prepare for your eyes to hurt very much.

Sounds like something that was broken and in need of fixing to me.

Now, Jim, I'm not trying to single you out, I just think your feelings are being felt by a great many fans right now and are more because the new touch screen thing is so underwhelming you feel like what was there before was better.

There is almost no way the new thing can be SO BAD that it destroys the old Epcot, or whatever it was your girlfriend says.

Everyone who remembers something great about the old ending, please explain to me what it was. And if you use the "they just put up black sheets" argument please justify taking money away from the new AA scenes so that people who ride the thing 10 times a trip can have something to look at when they become bored with the touch-screens.

[John]

Red:

I think plenty of people said what they liked about the ride and why they will miss it. Go back and read thru 8 pages. Your review of the ride shows you weren't a huge fan of the way the future was presented and thats fine, but plenty of people liked things the way they were laid out and staged.

Furthermore, if you read most everything anyone has said here... they aren't complaining about the first half of the ride - most even say it's an improvement. It's the lack of creativity given to the last half. Sure, it's tougher because there is narrow space to work with, but there was a great deal to look at before. You also missed one of my favorite - the future city vision and the haunted mansion effect used to show people communicating virtually across long distances. Yeah, some of this has come true, but could have been enhanced or updated.

Frankly, even in the old versions, where the scenery ended and it was just overhead lights, I thought that could have been improved as well.

And your assertion that there is no way the ride can be that bad just isn't jibing with people who have been on it. So, apparently there Iis a way it can be THAT BAD.

Please report back when you have a chance to take a spin and let us know what you think.

[Ian]

I can 100% assure you that, IMO, it is THAT BAD.

In fact (as I've said before) the very fact that the first half is so good just makes the second half seem even more pathetic when you get there.

I'm sure, just like everything else, there will be some folks who like the new ride (and some who hate it but will refuse to admit it because Disney never does anything wrong ), but I think it's plain to see that an overwhelming majority of people who have ridden it don't like it at all.

[techgeek]

WOW!

I have to start by saying I am waiting until my trip the 2nd week of Jan to cast despondant comments towards the refurb. I will say that sometimes that we (the few that research, study, look and love the experience that is Disney) Get wrapped up in our Disney Nastalgia Elitism (I am as bad as the rest). Disney has more vistors than ever and provides a more inclusive experience for more people. The facts are that many of the dumbing down of the rides as well as the distruction of old favorites has paved the way for a more popular park experience. I am not here to fight what's better(Old or New) just that all of these things have opened up the park in terms of the swetty masses. More people more revinue, more money more rides. They very well could have not changed the over all concept of that portion of the park and it would have led to decline. I do not wish to get any hate mail or to start an angery backlash, I just want to say that the park has more visitors and more rides ( I do like TT, MS, Soarin') I'm in theatre and concert production and know that we sometimes comprimise what we want, to do part in a more quality way. Maybe I will be as irrate in two weeks when I get back. If so I will eat some humble pie. LOL

[Red Randal]

techgeek:

I hate the "if it makes money, it's the right move" argument. Sadly, it's because I'm an elitist who thinks the public should be forcefed quality until they learn to understand it.

I was going to make that argument myself, honestly. Test Track still has huge lines after 10 years of glitch filled operation. Horizons used to NEVER have a wait, so they replaced it with a mega-headliner. It makes business sense, as much as I hate to admit it.

Though, really, it seems like the whole uproar here could have been avoided if they just threw up some pretty looking lights instead of black sheets.

BTW, John and Ian:

I'm almost certain that when I ride it again and try to review it, the rating will end up going down and I'll tear the ending to shreds. My point was that the ending definitely needed change and we shouldn't argue that they ruined something great by doing so. The real argument is that the change we got was so minimalist (and, in many opinions, cheap and unimaginative.) I only citied my review because Jim mentioned his friend saying they "ruined" the original. They definitely didn't ruin anything, they just did something really stupid with it.

[retlaw1]

...from my visit 12/12-12/18. I rode SSE on 12/17, after seeing Imagineer Bob Z. on 12/13 and asking when it would up for a soft opening (and getting a snippy reply of "We don't know when or if it will be working today").

I got off of the ride, and immediately started looking for someone to voice my complaints to. The video descent is boring. It was the hope of Horizons, but its not here. The worst part...going through those stupid "Do You Remember" items while waiting for my video to load. One of them referenced Amelia Earhart...yet I don't remember her at any part of the ride. I also remember on my ride-through that the news boy was turned around facing away from the track.

A cast member told me the intention is to take those photos they are taking on the ascent and plugging those into the cartoons on the decent in place of the computer characters. Let's see how that turns out...